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There should be a square rubber insulation piece glued to your oil pan that prevents the starter motor big cables shorting to the engine, it looks like it’s missing in your photos. Can you see clear space between the cables and sump. Might not be the cause of your issue but it’s a safety item.
Good input. I checked and there is clearance. The rubber insulation piece is there but further away from the connectors. I'll move them closer.
They are the same '53B relay on a 90' model year - so its unlikely a relay issue. I suspect the starter relay not engaging likely has nothing to do with the smoke, are you sure the smoke isn't just from oil on the manifolds burning off?
I'd suspect your starter doesn't engage because the starter relay's 85 connection is not getting grounded by the trans switch (neutral/park safety swicth). This connection is in the spare tire well behind a plastic shield above and in front (wrt the car) of the battery box. There is a 6 pin connector there (the starter relay pin 85 connects on Pin 4 a Violet/White wire. It must be grounded for the car to start). If the trans has previously been out the switch may not be connected properly. If its a manual it should be permanently grounded.
Alan
Thanks Alan. The smoke didn't come from the manifold - the engine didn't start so the smoke was definitely electrical. I also noticed smoke from the cables in the fuse panel.
I will definitely check the starter relay's 85 connector - great input.
The smoke appears even when the battery is simply connected. Regardless of the key being in the ignition, or turned to engage the starter.
That being the case, and your original photo showed the main cable to the jump post getting hot then it’s possible you’ve pinched/damaged the cables heading to the central electrical panel shown below or you’ve got a significant short circuit on the electrical panel. When you had the engine out did the grommets through the bulkhead to the CE panel look ok?
… and there was white smoke coming somewhere from the front driver-side of the engine (opposite side of the 14-pin connector).
Terminology: Front Main Engine (FME) harness. Runs from the starter to the alternator, at the belt cover branches to the ABS pump, and across the front of the engine to the jump post connector.
Your smoke is (most probably) coming from the branch to the ABS pump. The lead is almost always mis-routed by whoever did the last timing belt change. It should be routed behind the bracket to which the power steering reservoir is clamped not dangling on the power steering belt or sandwiched between the engine and the chassis.
The FME is also suppose to be clamped to the engine carrier. When an engine is re-installed or the FME is replaced almost no one reclamps the FME to the engine carrier. And once I’ve seen an FME routed so that the exhaust manifold was about to cook it to death.
That being the case, and your original photo showed the main cable to the jump post getting hot then it’s possible you’ve pinched/damaged the cables heading to the central electrical panel shown below or you’ve got a significant short circuit on the electrical panel. When you had the engine out did the grommets through the bulkhead to the CE panel look ok?
Yes, if by grommets you mean the rubber seal in the bulkhead then yes, it as well as the cable harness itself looked fine.
Terminology: Front Main Engine (FME) harness. Runs from the starter to the alternator, at the belt cover branches to the ABS pump, and across the front of the engine to the jump post connector.
Your smoke is (most probably) coming from the branch to the ABS pump. The lead is almost always mis-routed by whoever did the last timing belt change. It should be routed behind the bracket to which the power steering reservoir is clamped not dangling on the power steering belt or sandwiched between the engine and the chassis.
The FME is also suppose to be clamped to the engine carrier. When an engine is re-installed or the FME is replaced almost no one reclamps the FME to the engine carrier. And once I’ve seen an FME routed so that the exhaust manifold was about to cook it to death.
Yes I think you are right - the smoke likely originated from the branch of the FME where it splits, and cables go to the alternator and starter one way, and the ABC the other way. I inspected all three cable sets, and I didn't see any sign of it specifically.
I am also a bit confused as to why at the same time I saw smoke from the fuse panel, from the cables going into slot C, and (I think) T. There was visible sign of some cables here getting warm. This is really worrying me as well. NOT FROM MY CAR. This is just an image I found online. I've circled the connectors where I saw signs of cables getting warm/smoking
I was thinking that the next step to identify if there's a short inside the FME. But I am not sure how to continue the search from the fuse panel. I guess I have to remove it completely and have a look at the backside of it.
I'm suspecting your battery. Have you been charging it off the car? - what have you been charging it with? How? was it ever completely dead? (no voltage at all).
I'm suspecting your battery. Have you been charging it off the car? - what have you been charging it with? How? was it ever completely dead? (no voltage at all).
Alan
Yes, it has only been charged off the car. The car is from ~ 2004 (at least) and came with the car that I bought as a project. It has been charging with a regular car battery charger. I'm fairly certain it has been completely dead while it stood in the previous owner's garage.
Are you sure you charged it in the right polarity? A reverse charged battery could do a lot of what you are experiencing - which is otherwise very very odd.
Are you sure you charged it in the right polarity? A reverse charged battery could do a lot of what you are experiencing - which is otherwise very very odd.
Alan
99% sure it was charged correctly. The dash lit up, sunroof, window, and other electric lights etc. was working when the battery was connected. It was mainly the starter, the passenger side window, and pop-up headlights that wasn't working when we tried them. The latter two might not be connected (?).
I can't speak for if the battery was incorrectly charged by the previous owner however. So potentially my dad (who charged the battery) charged it correctly but a previous owner had not. Not sure if that could cause the same effect you are thinking about Alan.
All the thing things you mentioned would work ~normally* with the battery either polarity - however many electronic modules/ECUs would conduct massively in reverse bias taking huge currents (and possibly getting damaged)...
*motors would however run in reverse - including the headlight motor (so it wouldn't work) & windows (up instead of down etc). Just measure the battery voltage paying attention to polarity.
09-01-2023, 04:06 AM
