Bigfoot928

LOL that is my engine with the early stage setup.

Borla acquired TWM induction which was the manufacturer of the ITB's that Louie used for the basis of his kit. they are NLA.

Shirah

That's funny.
I got the pics from an early RL post about it.

Nice setup

Cheburator

First of all, let me say that it's great that new people are willing to sink in money and time to offer new 928 related products!

Secondly - use the search function. You would save A LOT of time and money.

None of the above ITB set ups would work on standard displacement engines. They are beautiful pieces of kit/engineering, but they are fitted to strokers with displacement in excess of 6.4ltrs. If you are to make a product like this and fit it to a 5.0 or 5.4 ltr engine you will drop power. Been there, done that, got the medal.

The water bridge is and it isn't that much of a problem. Fitting an adaptor plate - in my case going from from 32v heads to Pierburg E39 M5 ITBs solved most issues. Only one of the ITBs had to be machined a tiny bit to fit...

Search is your friend - cannot re-iterate this again and again. Plenty of self-explanatory photos on my posts...

P.S. We got 436RWHP (Mustang Dyno, which makes grown men cry) and 500Nm at the rear wheels out of a massaged 5.4ltr engine. Don't think that thas been surpassed yet for the size, while the engine is tractive enough that it can be taken to a supermarket car park on a Saturday afternoon...

soontobered84

LMAO!! You posted Sasquatch friend !!!! That's some funny stuff right there, I don't care who you are.

Bigfoot928

modifying the coolant bridge was the easiest part of the whole project. If someone wanted to really make a splash in the 928 performance world, make a clamshell LS style intake similar to the ones MSD makes. Most 928's out there are stock. very few strokers on the road. make an intake for the 87-95 models and sell the crap out of them.
:

Rasant Products

Well, it gets a bit convoluted - as these discussions tend to - but that's okay... So, the questions to answer, as part of a development approach (at least from my perspective), would be -

1) What problem does the "MSD / LS-style" intake solve for the '87 to 95 cars?
2) What problem does / can a similar intake for the earlier 32v cars solve?
3) What problem does this style of intake potentially solve for the older 16-valve cars (and is there an equally enthusiastic market for a product like this for those models...?)
4) From a pure self-interest stand-point (given our current efforts to revive the Rotrex supercharger kits), this could potentially provide a whole new twist on said SC kit (moving intake an filtration to the front, solving some of the under-intake / rubber boot / MAF limitations.)

Here's the big one -
5) Since this thread was more about a fresh perspective on the ITB topic, it begs the question; can this type of "MSD / LS-style" intake potentially double (with appropriate internal configuration), as the air intake box over a set of ITBs... IOW - for all instances mentioned above, the upper half of the clam-shell could potentially appear (externally at least), as largely the same for all of the iterations...? (While on the inside, the base "plate" area either "hugs" internal ITB bells, or the bells to long-tube runners

You're talking about this thing, right...?

Bigfoot928

yep that is the one. not even thinking about that on an ITB setup. not enough room. It would still need to have the inlet at the rear as the water bridge will block a front entry. Stock intake tech is 35 years old design wise. these aftermarket plenums do very well on directing the flow and keeping velocity where it needs to be. do some googling and you'll find pics of the insides. I think you need to get your hands dirty with the 928, and move away from napkin theory to understand the engine bay and the intricacies. I don't mean that in a bad way but your questions and comments show a severe lack of knowledge on these cars. the 928 group is probably the most technical group on this whole site, so you better get to know the cars and the engine bay really really well.

Rasant Products

Oh, okay - thanks for clarifying - because for a minute there I took your comment as another snarky slight... (Speaking frankly, your assumption of what I do or don't know is stifling man.)

You wondered into the conversation and bled all over a thread about potential ITB development - shifted the narrative to one about a revised intake (and "not even thinking about that on ITBs" - your words, not mine.) Rather than fight it, I decided to just meet you where you're at and ask questions in a segmented way - by initiative (NA vs ITB vs forced-induction) and by model (again, segmented), to try and stimulate further collaborative conversation. Not to draw your ire.

Forget it - the world is flat (and this is why it would be very difficult for any fresh perspectives, or new initiatives to ever get introduced in the 928 world from this forum.) All topics have been discussed. Nothing has NOT been tried. All knowledge is already here (and unless you have been here for 25+ years, you don't know hsit and can't contribute hsit and any questions that you might ask is just a revelation of what a dumbhsit you are and how little you know about these precious cars.)

Duly noted. Thin-skinned, or just too much early high-octane eggnog? Or just not up for the bullhsit? You decide.

Speedtoys

Yup

Speedtoys

Post #10 +Research
Post #10 +Research
None, now it's going to fail from feature creep, probly not get done, and cost too much for 928 owners to get the volume you need to ever...break even, with it. The S4+ intakes are fine boosted, but a horrible intake N/A.

hans14914

These images may help. The ideal entry angle is about 22.5deg. This is possible to clear the waterbridge with 2" mandrel bent runners welded to a lower flange. Shown is a 25deg entry with a flange. With the correct mating part, this will fit without modifying any of the coolant passages of the waterbridge, but it does require destructive modification of the bolt boss.

I personally don't like anything that requires permanent modification, so I am still trying to figure this one out myself. I think the only real conclusion is to make a different bridge.

Bigfoot928

the challenge is that you are trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist, but you haven't been here long enough to figure that out. ITB kits are like stroker kits. for every single one on the road there are several that are in boxes unused or still being "developed". You can spend a ton of time and money developing an ITB kit for a market that would fall in the single digits, or solve a real problem where the stock intakes are restrictive and sell a crap ton more.
You also should understand that every couple of years we have a new vendor stumble on the 928 forums, and its sunshine and unicorns about all the cool stuff they are going to make.... and they get chewed up and spit out by the collective group. Usually because the don't/can't deliver what they promised, and most are regurgitating what they did in another market, thinking it will be a gold mine in our little corner of the world.

I'm happy you are here trying new things, but you should read the room. Create products that actually solve a problem. I'm not trying to be an a-hole, but we've seen a dozen versions of you before. Participate. buy a 928. get involved in the community and learn. then try to solve real problems.

Speedtoys

"chewed up and spit out by the collective group"

And we're NOT trying to do that..but..unicorn herders have been here before, often with the same notions of what works in the 911 market must work here.

We're not poor, or cheap..we're just different. We have 928's because they're different than boilerplate "Porsche" and..we can enjoy Porsche well within the cost of the cost of tax+title for a 911 purchase.

And different..because the 928 was entirely different in design and thinking from anything else Porsche had done to that time, and..SINCE. So there is not a lot of crossover.

There are a # of really really smart 928 folk here, use them as a partner to be your knowledge base and accelerate your project.

But...first..the Rotrex kit should be pretty simple to just spit out, the work has already been done.

Past that, Any S4+ car could use a better intake, and wow..what a change that will make. And that will also bolt into the Rotrex kit owners installs. From there, HOW different the earlier engines get air from the air cleaner to then modify the intake "printing" to fit their cars, may be pretty simple.

Very smart people have come up with the coolest things, and then picked the wrong owner market for it, and sold like, 3 of it. By far the broadest market for real measurable gains (that dont want a supercharger), are S4+ intakes in OE configurations.

You'll sell..over a decade, 1,000 of those.

Rasant Products

Uuhh... Yeah, not me! Keep in mind that I was already a Rennlist individual member, long before Rasant became a sponsoring member. We also don't currently have a 928 ITB development underway, or planned, so I don't have a dog in that hunt. I launched this thread out of pure enthusiastic interest (after walking around the shop here one night at 2-3-4 AM - as I often do - and I saw the 3D printed runner sitting there), which sparked a random thought. Call it a brain-fart.

I was also pretty emphatic in one of my EARLIEST posts (and in fact, perhaps even as early as our introductory post), that "these types of projects live in the low-volume / low-margin corner of the balance sheet..." Cumulatively speaking, in the future, if sales from these types of developments make up 1% of our total annual revenue, I'd be REALLY surprised. So please refrain from painting me with that generalized vendor du jour brush of yours.

As a passionate enthusiast (like you - I'm sure), I take umbrage with that type of ugly generalization.

Apart from the primary focus of the five companies (straight Service, vs Rebuilds, Projects & Restorations, vs Parts and Fluids Distribution, vs Sales & Consignments and then this niche Products company, this was supposed to be a fun and creative outlet. So far (thanks to a couple of members who like to run roughshod on the forum), not so much yet, but there's hope.

Thanks, I already own TWO. So - if it's okay with you, I'll just be the most authentic version of myself and decline to be nudged or judged by somebody hellbent on making the experience unpleasant for others. I own several P-cars (air-cooled and transaxle) and the goal is to have fun with them, maybe develop some things, make them better FOR MYSELF (hopefully) and share in the experiences with others.

Frankly, I'd rather drive them than talk about them, but that's just me.

Rasant Products

That has grown into more of a "further development required" process, because we felt like the base kit(s) should offer more than what was available before.

We'll post more details in that thread soon enough, but in short - we want a scalable MAF solution available from Day-1 and for the second level of kit, we want the ability for somebody upgrading from the first kit, to be able to utilize the same MAF and to install an intercooler without having to remove the intake plenum again!