Oldshark

Hello all I am new on the site. I have been lurking around for a while and finally decided to include myself in the on goings here. I have a 84 manual that was used as a parts car. No interior and some trim removed. The main bones of the car are intact. Motor trans brakes suspension pretty much mechanicals are still there. I know there has been a few 928s with LS or Chevy small blocks installed. Does anyone know of a small block ford in one? I have a bunch laying around and would like to save the car with a simple motor installed. Any help would be appreciated.

Ducman82

just money and time. :-)

Oldshark

I beginning to think from the lack of replies that it is not a very common change. I know the ford motor dies not have as big of following as the Chevy does but that might make it more unique, and expensive.

Crumpler

The 928 is an obscure platform now to begin with, and those owners who change/modify them are a small minority of that.
Don’t get me wrong, my 86.5 is ten years devolved from stock, but you aren’t going to get a lot of hits on the thread.
Sounds like a cool endeavor, as Jake said — it’s just a matter of time and money.
On the other hand, I would not expect any hybrid 928 project to appreciate the value of the car and make it more expensive, but certainly it would become more unique.
Post a thread if you do it.
Dave H.

Oldshark

Dave I didn’t express myself very well when I used the term more expensive. What I meant by that is it would cost me more to build it with that motor than a different one. I was also alerted by other members that this post would not go over very well. I bought the car for next to nothing and it was probably going to be crushed if it didn’t sell. I’m not claiming to save another one like some of the other members are doing. I’m sure it could be saved and put back to its original glory. I don’t have the funds to travel that road. I just want to have some fun with it because I think the 928 is one of the best designed and aesthetically pleasing cars made. Right up there with the Jaguar xke. I will leave my current 83 manual in stock form as it should be. Especially after just replacing the oil pan gasket and motor mounts.

fiatrn

I think you'll get a lot of support for the project - people here love watching & helping each other solve engineering challenges. But I don't know of a build thread for putting in a ford engine, so you might find no one who has done that particular swap. Which means you'll be a trailblazer, and that will garner even more interest once you start.

icsamerica

It's a controversial subject. I also have a Jaguar that was chevy swapped so I know first hand.

Here's my thoughts... I own a 928 with it's original engine and Small Block Chevy swapped Jaguar.

Why you dont swap a Porsche 928
The 928 engine doesn't have any major design flaws that cant be fixed, managed or that render the engine immediately useless, un-repairable or un-replaceable. If you maintain and dont abuse or over-rev them they'll last a long time. The 928 with it's V8 is about right for the car and makes for a cohesive well engineered package. Even if a repair was serious and the price was high there would be a good chance of success if the work is carried out by a decent mechanic. If you accept the 928 engine is fundamentally sound then a swap becomes arbitrary and whimsical and thus the resultant car has less value. The decrease in value is both monetary and social becasue It's less of a Porsche and is somewhat bastardized. Very few people dream about a Porsche with out it's original engine.

Why you DO swap a Jaguar
Jag motors are really bad and there are very few options for repair or replacement. Numerous forum and FB posts of owners going through the rebuilding process and then the engine cracks or fails in another way. There is little brain trust left and no reasonable amount of money that can fix an engine with bad metallurgy. Even if you found a spare engine Jag Quality control in the 70's and 80's was so bad that chances are... it's just as bad. Jag's are way over built and can take the power and are actually lighter and go/stop better with a SBC so the result is a more cohesive package when swapped right. Sadly there few swaps that are done well. That said, well done swaps clearly result in a better, reliable and more usable car that wont go for scrap so in my mind it's justified. I've had more than one acerbic Jag enthusiast tell me they'd rather see the car go for scrap than it have a "pig iron" lump under the hood. All quite ironic becasue Chevy metallurgy is the up there with the finest in the world and Jag engines crack and drop values. There is usually some banter about stupid American mechanics who dont understand fine engineering, poor maintenance etc. Laughable. This usually ends with me telling them **** off and reminding them it's my car and I'll do with it what I want with it. Financially speaking well done SBC engine swaps have decent resale value but the appeal is still somewhat limited.

Socially speaking,
Generally speaking the Porsche guys wont appreciate it and the Ford guys wont care. My Porsche is older but still appreciated by Porsche enthusiasts with far newer and more expensive models who appreciate the brand. It's Porsche history, as built. By Contrast. My Jaguar is not well appreciated by the Jag Faithful and when I attend Jaguar themed events the response to the car is mixed to belligerent even though it's well done. It's just awkward. Most Jag guys dont like it and the Chevy guys couldn't care less about a Jaguar so the car is like a red-headed step child who doesn't fit in. I dont get it but I understand it perhaps because personally I'm both a stepchild and 1/2 brother. Some people are disappointed when a car no-long has it's original wheels too. The acceptance of modifications varies greatly.

Final Thoughts
All that said it's your car, do what makes you happy but the enthusiasm of others will vary greatly.

upstate bob

If the Porsche engine is saveable I'd stick with that although I don't feel that would be heresy to put a Ford in it. Old Fords have received SBCs for decades. The plus is ease and cost of maintenance and plentiful supply of speed equipment.
If it breaks, no big deal. I still have an old Bronco (snowplow truck now) with a 302 and, although the body has rotted away, the engine is still snappy.
The Porsche, even with the 4.5, has more torque than a 302 but you can still get plenty of performance from that Ford. Do what you wish, it's your car, screw resale value.

SwayBar

Out of curiosity, which Ford engine do you propose to use?

If it's a 32 valve, you will have interest since it's a newer/modern motor, versus stuffing an old carbureted 16 valver in it.

The Forgotten On

^^ A 32V 5.4 supercharged Ford engine would be a lot of fun in a 928....

But if the engine is savable (most likely is) I would just get the old Porsche engine going again unless the wiring and everything else is so toasted it needs everything new.

It's your car, have fun with it!

Oldshark

Yes I just saw on a different forum that someone installed a 5.0 coyote engine with a Whipple blower on that still cleared the factory hood. The 4.7 in the car is extremely questionable as the hood was one of the items sold of for parts. The air filter was not on either so the engine sat outside in the Wisconsin winter and rest of the year. At this point I don’t even know if it is seized or not. I also don’t know when the last time it was even drivable. If I end up doing the swap it would be a small block ford as previously mentioned. I don’t have any modular motors laying around. That being said I do have a 1970 Boss 302 that was raced last in the early eighties, so at least it won’t be a boring 16 valve carbureted motor as was mentioned.

belgiumbarry

to compare it with oem … what's a "decent" running 16V M28 engine worth in the US ? much difference between a 4.5 or 4.7 l ??

Oldshark

That’s a good question maybe another member would know what running motors go for. I have not looked for one at this point

Zirconocene

I say go with the swap, I think it sounds like a cool project. I have nothing against the stock 928 engine, don't get me wrong, but it sounds like you have some good options on hand and, as you say, there are many, many options available to tweak and tune those Ford motors. I also second what was posted above: whichever route you choose, it would be great if you could share the progress.

Cheers

Wisconsin Joe

Your car, your choice. I'm not enough of a purist to slam you for doing it.

However, it's not terribly realistic to think it's going to be cost effective. Not if you want to do it right.

The cost of the motor is a small part of such a swap. Even the 'getting the motor in' part is not that big of a deal. Motor mounts, an adapter for the bell housing & flywheel, and engine management (either the original Ford stuff or a stand-alone like Mega Squirt).
It's the 'everything else' that is the 'meat' of the project.

Have you done any 'Frankenstein' transplants like this?
Are you aware of all of the detail work that is needed to do it properly?
Do you have the fabrication skills for that?

There have been dozens if not hundreds of swaps, mostly SBC. Maybe a handful have been done 'well'.

One of the better ones was Tony's "Just Peachy". There's a very long thread that details the swap and all it entailed. A search of "Just Peachy" as the key words should find it.
I strongly suggest you read through that before deciding to go down that road.

In terms of time & money, getting a decent 16v motor and going through it would be cheaper & easier. You seem new here (an observation, not a criticism). You may or may not be aware that one of the 'trusted vendors', 928 International, usually has a sale on used parts between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Half price for all used stuff in stock. Includes motors.

However, if you decide that the Ford swap is the way to go, please post a thread on your work. I always find that sort of thing fascinating.