Thaddeus

Hey,

I am getting a quote from a fellow to do my steering rack, tie rod ends, and motor mounts in one fell swoop. He's highly recommended, but has not done MM's on 928's before. He's wondering how much time to bid for the MM's since the steering rack will already be out.

Any estimates?

Thanks

Thaddeus

P.S. Yes, I know I could do this stuff myself, and probably should... but summer is short, I want to drive, and I have many other projects going now. Don't feel like having Sharky laid up for 3-4 weekends while the good weather's here.

j.kenzie@sbcglobal.net

Hi Thaddeus,
I would think 2 hours more with rack already out should cover it. I'm assuming the guy is a pro. It would probably take me 3 hours and I'm an amateur.
Anchor mounts from Rock Auto seem fine, you may need to check that you have correct locating pins on bottom (you can hacksaw any pin off the top).
Huge improvement in smoooothness!
Good luck,
Dave

MikeN

I'd say even with the rack out he will still need 4-6 hours to get the motor mounts replaced. Lowering or removing the rack is just a small part of the motor mount job. You then have to
bring down the crossmember which means you drop the lower control arms, get the mounts out, replace mounts in their carriers, re-install mounts, etc. etc. etc. I think book time on the job is something like 8-12 hours. Not hard stuff, but very time consuming.

Mark

If you are going this far - you might as well add a couple more hours to do the oil pan gasket...and - if the oil pan is off - inspect the 2/6 rod bearing.

LOT'S of WYAIT's with the MM replacement!

Jim_H

It's a 12 hour job if you factor in a few hang ups, which will happen. I have done it 3 times on an S4. Don't know how different pre S4's are.

docmirror

8-10 hours for a skilled mech with air tools, but not done one before. 6-8 hours if he's done the job before. Add time for the oil pan gasket. Tell him to bring several large prybars, and a good tapered drift, bottle jack, couple 2x4 chunks, good flourescent light, 3/8 drive mm universal sockets.

Doc

Jim_H

You're planning on everything going right. I've never had that happen.

dr bob

Does he have a lift and tall stands to hold the motor up while it's on the lift? That would make things a bit easier. As far as time "saved" by having the rack out, maybe an hour for a first-timer, less for the experienced 928 MM specialist. Having a lift saves a lot of sliding in and out and reaching for tools that you've kicked under the table saw. It also means there will be room for an extra pair of hands for a few critical tasks. I did mine solo on tall jackstands and it was a chore.

This is really the first job I've done on the car where I was thinking seriously about having a two-post frame lift. Maybe $3.5k installed, with a few tall stands and an oil drain tank... Cheaper to pay someone to do that serious work, I thought. Then I went ahead and did the work anyway...

You/he will need to have a way to support the motor by the vacant motor mount support points on the block if you need to do the pan gasket. Starter and alternator out, oil filter out, for easier pan bolt access.

Air tools help a lot with disassemble, but use caution on reassemble. Use the air ratchet, or the 3/8 impact gun set to "stun". Torque wrench --everything-- on assembly. Don't be afraid to invest in a 99-cent bottle of cheapo nail polish at the Rite-Aid store, and use it to mark the bolts that have had the torque wrench applied. Factory tip that will save you some aggravation later. Get a set of GearWrenches, particularly the 10mm size for some of the pan bolts. At >$125/hr for shop labor at dealers in this area, I could buy the wrench set and give it to the tech for the time he'd save on the pan bolts with just that one 10mm wrench. Sears sells them, as do others. Be sure to find and share the tips on pan gasket installation. Use Yamabond, Hondabond (same stuff) or Hylomar sealer on the pan gasket. Be Sure that he's aware that there are different length pan bolts used in different sections of the pan.

I agree with docmirror, that experience is worth 2-4 hours on this job. A second set of experienced hands is worth another hour or two on the mounts, and will also lessen the pan gasket duty some.

Good luck!

m21sniper

I just did this on my 928 on a lift with air tools. It was the second MM R&R i've done on 928s, and while rusty, i qualify as 'an experienced mechanic'.

Took me about six hours for the mounts(i also did the front shocks as well, which adds several hours to the job).

docmirror

Yeah, that bumper sticker 'spit happens' comes to mind. In the 3 & 1/2 I've done, everything has gone smoothly. As for the last half of one job, well, there were - challenges. The patient survived, and made a full recovery. As we've discussed before, this isn't a complicated job, just messy, greasy, dirty, heavy, and generally disgusting. Knock 60-90 minutes off for a chassis lift available I guess.

Jim, no offence brother, but remind never to let you 'help' on a MM job.

BTW, the last time I discussed this topic on the board, my contribution was removed by the great Moderator in the sky. I made a booboo, as just a 'User'. Sounds like I have a substance problem.



Doc

docmirror

Ya know, I've been promoted. Didn't even notice until my last post. I better Shut Up now before I get demoted. Won't be the first time....My sincere to any Moderators who were slighted by my last post. I apologize - unreservedly.

Doc

Jim_H

Hell, trying to get the nut on the pass side upper heat shield took 1/2 an hour...

Mark

JimBob951

Docmirror, was that a bottle jack, or a bottle of jack?? :-)

Jim
87 S4 a/t
87 951

Bill Ball

It took me 13 hours to do the pan gasket and MM on a lift. I'm not fast. I got hung up by not having a 10MM gearwrench to remove the otherwise inaccessible pan bolts. Add an hour for not having that tool at the time. I spent a lot of time cleaning the pan gasket surfaces.

If he has bid the rack part already, add 4-5 hours for the MM. Since he has never done this before I'm sure he will run into some gotchas. Suspending the motor is traditionally done with a motor crane. Can't do that with a lift, so you have to "improvise." Getting the crossmember back up and fully lined up so the horizontal bolts can go back in takes 2 people.