John Struthers

Back to that sound!
My son, Zack's, Great White 81' had a similar sound.
In his case there was a sometime engagement of flywheel...and sometimes not, there was NO sudden metal engagement noise. When there was no flywheel engagement it had that old time super spin Mopar sound. Reason was .... one missing starter mount bolt and the other was just a little loose. Of course the missing one is the one most difficult to see and the other LOOKED tight until I watched while Zack engaged the starter at which point I could see the starter visibly rock back away from the mount area which meant it did not engage the flywheel and it would torque over sideways a little when it did engage.
This might not be your problem but then again... if it is ...you save a lot of hunting and general aggrevation.
If this is your problem, make sure the starter will sit flush at mount point and bear down a little on the remaining starter bolt. One bolt will get you going. Hmmm, I'm not sure if Zack ever replaced that missing mount bolt.
Let us know in any case.

Andre Roodnat

Also a possibillity John. But then there wouldn't be a spark. Not a continous sparking anyways.

John Struthers

Andre,
He hasn't responded to the spark issue.
Mine is an off the wall shot anyhow as it was running -as I understand it- until it died and stranded him on the side of the road.
I doubt it was the injectors -unless clogged- and that would lead me back to the pumps (first), filter 2nd, and coil/dist. 3rd. As mentioned by several listers.
Although, Steve -Texas- has/had some good digitals of a greenwire and front bundle that had corroded to the crunchy stage within the insulation from his sHARk. A peek at the jump point area/wiring would be a good idea as well.
Time will tell

Andre Roodnat

Steve mentioned he had a spark in his 3rd post. What's troubling me though is that he wasn't able to get it running with starter fluid. Although I also wasn't able to do that either when my pump broke.
By the way Steve, be carefull with that stuff. Don't spray it on the sensor thread of the MAF.
Did the engine actually stumble as you say? A fuel pump failure usually means a direct stalling of the engine.
Check if you have a good fuel flow and if so, check if the injectors are clicking.

John Struthers

Correcto Mundo,
I missed the whir/no whir as well.
Pump/ relay now at top of list.
BTW ether/starting fluid won't be found around my house ... unless I move back to
Northwestern Pennsylvania that is.

jeff jackson

That "whir indefinitely" while spinning the starter over does "Speak Volumes"..it absolutely "mirrors an engine that the starter is working fine....BUT, with absolutely NO load..IE NO compression..Check the T belt immediately... before any further troubleshooting is done, New or Not..these things can happen

Desolation

Had a little more time today ... and checked the fuse (OK, but changed it anyway), then the relay (some corrosion on the connectors, more inside). Jumped the relay as suggested ... and the pump ran continuously. Still didn't start, however. I suspect the filter is clogged, and perhaps the check valve. Will order both, along with a relay tomorrow from 928intl. The starter sounds more normal: everything turning as expected, have spark, no joy yet. Better pay a visit to the shrine.

Any suggestions for best method to confirm fuel is arriving at the cylinder? I'm a little over cautious about the fuel lines since I replaced the rubber lines a few years ago and discovered one was not quite sealed at the time (puddle of fuel in the V - crank those screws!).

zoltan944

Take off your filter and mist some engine starter fluid in the intake, since you have spark it should alteast START to catch, but i think you need to grab a compression tester and try that. Pull a plug and check compression. Your timing belt could still seem fine, my tensioner wasn't snuggly tight down so it slipped a couple teeth and bent my valves but looked fine when i took the cover off.
I tried to take a picture of my head for you, but my cameras batterys are kaput

Andre Roodnat

I can’t figure out why you want to start replacing things before any culprit is found.
But please do this for me then; loosen the fuel line at the engine bay. Have someone jump the fuel pump relay. A good (about 20) cm flow should gush out of the line. No need to strain the linings unnecessary by replacing check-valve, filter, etc. when they are ok. Next thing would be to listen to the injectors clicking. Press a screwdriver against the injector rail and hold the top end to your ear and have someone start the car. They can be heard ticking clearly. If you might suspect the timing belt, remove the covers, check tension and TDC.

If there is no or insufficient flow at the fuel line, check the amount of flow by loosening the lining at the pump as described at the manual.

neilh

On an 81, you do not need to pull any lines off to check fuel delivery.
removed the hex headed cap on the end of the passsenger side fuel runner, ( dont drop the ball bearing inside it!) put a jar under it, jump the fuel relay and check the flow.
See the WSM 24-8 for details.

Desolation

UPDATE: Well, it was the T-Belt/new cam gears after all. Opened up the covers and discovered things had stretched/settled in and the belt lost enough tension to slip about 8 teeth on the cam gears. Detensioned it completely, reset the cam gears and belt, re-tensioned it (double/triple check, etc.) and it fired up on the first try. Buttoned everything up and so far, so good. The tensioner adjuster bolt is about 1/2" farther in (still room to add more tension) now, and we're back on the road.

So, I wound up with an extra check valve (it WAS leaking however, a fortuitous discovery), an extra fuel pump relay and a new battery. Small $$$, and good insurance. The Ol' Interstate sat for a year, so it was likely toast anyway (4+ years).

Notes from a greasy fool: removing the hex end on the passenger fuel rail provides a quick and easy check for presence of gas (do be careful of the bearing). Do borrow the wife's brightest candy red fingernail polish to mark the cam gears.

On to a little electrical gremlin - dash meter reads low - and I'm not sure if I got the alternator connections back together in quite the right way. The L shaped bracket - it goes on the back of the unit, over the other connectors?

It's not pictured in the WSM (at least, I don't think it is). Complicating matters - a PO hack job means I have no shroud/hose, and I'll have to check which one is on there, anyway. And then there's the ground conections, and a few miles of aging wires with cooked insulation, etc.

Thanks to all on the list for the replies, advice and support. Was it Gibson who said that together we know more than any one of us can possibly know?