H2

Audi seems to be scooping the field with their new race car. The Audi R10 TDI may be the end of Porsche as we know it if Porsche doesn't seriously step up to the racing plate. Their Penske experiment doesn't seem to be panning out. I'll bet they're really scratching their heads. I wonder what Audi has planned to compete for the Porsche market? (It ain't the TT, BTW).

Harvey

fabric

Audi is a wholly owned subsidiary of VW. Porsche is about to (has?) bought a controlling interest in VW. They have a relationship otherwise going back some time.

I think you're reading a bit too much into this.

worf928

Porsche has proven for decades that it can engineer around physical limitations. (Witness the 911.) Thus, I think the diesel technology will simply add to Porsche's challenge. Audi is readying a Gallardo-based entry into the six-figure sportscar market. An A6 Coupe is rumoured also.

The new TT for 2007/8 will be - reportedly - better balanced and better handling than the old TT. But, it doesn't look as good on the exterior and interior it would seem. The first generation TT wasn't designed to be a true sportscar. But, as a sporty, fun-to-drive, all-season daily-driver it does its job well. And it even handles very well - if you have Mark-I 'small-bushing' front lower control arms.

PS. This thread will head to OT soon...

Ketchmi

Hey Harvey...

The Porsche/Penske cars are LMP2's whereas the Audi RT10's are LMP1's. It's a tribute to Porsche that the cars they built for a lesser class of racing are competing for overall wins despite smaller tires and having to run NA vs. turbo. Porsche has been dominating the LMP2 class with no doubt and has a couple of overall wins over all the LMP1 cars including the Audi TDI's. I was at the ALMS race down here last weekend, they are awesome cars and the racing was fantastic! The number 6 Porsche was about 1 second behind the Audi TDI at the finish and had been challenging for the lead. Why Porsche decided to run LMP2 instead of LMP1 is a question only they can answer.

BTW, Ferrari had the best grid girls by far!

Rufus Sanders

Not on your life! The RS Spyder is faster and will soon beat the R10 in ALMS. I'd say the RS Spyder is the end of Audi. - Ruf

heinrich

I don't think Porsche are in any way threatened by Audi, indeed Audi is basically a Porsche ally and always has been, like VW. Porsche ans Audi have never competed in the same market. You'll notice that the Porsche-Audi-VW offerings are very carefully designed and marketed as comlimentary as opposed to competitive.

Now, the subliminal point is well taken Harvey .... perhaps another way to ask it, is:

Since many production Automobile Manufacturers are able to produce ultra-high performance automobiles exponentially more frequently and more effectively, what will Porsche do to maintain its market share?

We all know the answer ..... Porsche are developing and exploring new markets, since their traditional market (ultra-high performance) is being shared increasingly. Small cars ..... SUV's ...... hybrids .... diesel ......

There's not much we can do about that. Porsche are a far more profitable organization than Lamborghini or Ferrari and in order to remain so, they must change. Porsche have always managed to fill a sort of poor man's supercar niche .... I suspect they will continue along those lines.

hacker-pschorr

End of Porsche as we know it? Porsche loosing in GT2 to Panoz is a bigger issue than the RS loosing to the R10. They have only attended a few races so far - it is a developmental year for the car. Not even Porsche will shoot out of the hole with a 100% winner every time on day one. Remember the first year of the R8? It didn't win LeMans.

The 917 had it's share of bugs over the years - we only remember the good times.

Jim bailey - 928 International

The actual ownership is "... Porsche AG said it intends to acquire a further 3.9 pct of Volkswagen AG shares, taking its total stake in the carmaker to a blocking minority level of 25.1 pct.

It said it has submitted an application to the German Cartel Office to obtain clearance for the plans.

It said the Cartel Office is expected to clear the plans swiftly and once approved, Porsche will increase the shareholding in VW. ...." So in some ways Porsche OWNS the Audi race effort the rational for buying into VW was to protect long established busines relationships VW over the years has hired Porsche for much design work it would not suprise me if much of the technoligy for the "Audi" race car is based on PRIOR PORSCHE experience. It has been said by many that Porsche and Audi had a gentlemens agreement NOT to compete and that has SAVED Porsche untold millions of Euros.

heinrich

Well yes JimB .... very true. Look, Ferdinand Piech came straight from Porsche and next thing Audi had aluminium engines and high-performance sleek cars (anyone remember the Audi 90?????)

hacker-pschorr

I still get a kick out of Porsche "purists" ripping on the Cayanne for being 1/2 VW. It's even funnier when these people drive air cooled 911's.

Somewhere in OT or General is a thread questioning the quality of the new Panamerica's body being built by VW. That is like an Acura owner calling Honda's a POS.

Jim bailey - 928 International

And what is wrong with that ??" That is like an Acura owner calling Honda's a POS." after all in many instances thay paid a great deal more for the same basic car just BECAUSE of the nameplate they have to get something for the extra $$.

hacker-pschorr

I have a lot of respect for the NSX owners I see on a regular basis at Road America who de-badged their cars for Honda badges - even the engine and interior. Sure they are going for the "Euro" look, boy does it shock the idiots who actually believe Acura's are better than Hondas.

I would love to buy a Cayanne and install Tourag wheels.

Chupa

FYI, if Porsche now controls the VW Group, it also means they also control ... Lamborgini, Bentley, & Bugatti.

heinrich

This isn't new, they have had that family-level interaction for many decades.

pmotts

?? Why do you think that?