Group Buy (FEELER): Stage8 Locking Bolts for 928 Oil Pan

[ideola]

Background
As some of you may be aware, we're currently running a group buy for Stage8 locking CV bolts for the entire range of 928 (as well as 914, 924, 944, 968, and 911). In the 928 thread, a couple of 'listers brought up the issue of the oil pan bolts on the 928 and inquired about commissioning Stage8 to develop an oil pan bolt kit using their patented locking fasteners.

What we determined is that the oil pan requires five M6x25 bolts and twenty-five M6x28 bolts. The challenge in developing this kit is that the 28mm length bolts must be machined down from 35mm bolts, which adds about $1 per bolt to the cost. Not insurmountable, of course, but it does add some cost.

Directional Pricing
That being said, Stage8 can produce these at an MSRP of $88 per complete kit, which would be GrooveLok bolts in the quantities and sizes described above, with E-clips and teardrop locks, as pictured below (note: photo is a generic photo, NOT a 928 pan):




Group Buy Discount Tiers
In order to produce these, they would like to see a minimum order of 5 sets. Since this is a brand new application, we'll need to get commits before I will commission the parts to be made. Here is the discount tiers Stage8 will offer as we get more participants:

• up to 4 sets = $88.00 each (0% discount)
• 5 to 9 sets = $83.60 each (5% discount)
• 10 to 14 sets = $79.20 each (10% discount)
• 15-19 sets = $74.80 each (15% discount)
• 20 sets or more = $70.40 each (20% discount)

If there is sufficient interest in this new application, I will coordinate the buy with start and end dates, and all other relevant activities as I have with the CV bolt buy and others (if your unfamiliar with our previous group buys, please find a complete cross reference here).

Please post questions & interest below!

[S4ordie]

Having never removed the oil pan on either of my 928's, how accessible are they to be able to take advantage of the c-clip and locking tab? Are any of these bolts a pain to get to and therefore would be near impossible to take advantage of the locking feature.

My ignorance knows no bounds. If other more knowledgable 928 owners think this is a good idea I may be interested. Timing is also of concern as I am about to r/r the oil pans on both cars.

[Tony]

Rogs stud set..nuf said. havent had an issue in the nearly 3 years now since i installed it and the silcone gasket.

[ideola]

As posted by borland:

Originally Posted by borland

The common practice now is to use a thread locker compound, like Loctite or alternatively, to purchase and install a threaded stud kit. With the stud kit the studs are glued into the threaded engine block, and then locknuts are used to prevent nut migration.

With the new silicone oil pan gasket (instead of the Porsche supplied cork gasket), the need for fastener locking is of greater importance. I think a Stage8 type of fastener would be an excellent alternative what’s currently used.

Here's the oil pan installed with factory hex head bolts and flat washers..





Hope that helps.

If you guys want 'em, I'll pursue it. If you want to stick with loctite and studs, that's cool too. Just gauging interest at this point.

[borland]

At $88 plus taxes and shipping, seems steep. A group buy price would certainly help with purchase motivation.

These would be easier to install than the stud kit which sells for $58 USD with shipping, but requires gluing the studs to the engine block. So the extra cost ( $20-$30) might be worth it to save on having to glue the studs in place.

Put me down for a set on a group buy.

[blown 87]

I will take a set.

[ideola]

Just a couple of observations on the price:
A significant cost contributor is $25 for machining the bolts down to 28mm. The bolts only come in 5mm increments from suppliers, so 25 of them have to be cut down to 28mm. Stage8 told me they needed to use 35mm bolts to start from because the 30mm didn't leave enough room to secure the bolt in the tooling for precision cutting.

Also, does the $58 for a stud kit include the loctite? Splitting hairs, I know, but gotta ask!

If we can get to the minimum buy-in to have Stage8 produce these, I'll push hard to see if we can escalate the discount tier, given all of the business 'listers have sent their way recently with the CV bolts...

PARTICIPANT LIST
I'll pony up for a set too for my 80 Euro to help move things along:
ideola: confirmed for 1 set
borland: confirmed for 1 set
blown 87: confirmed for 1 set
CONFIRMED=3 || TENTATIVE=0 || TOTAL=3

[GregBBRD]

Actually, this might be a grreat product for those who use a silicone pan gasket, since the hardware torque is very low with that style gasket....but I think Roger has solved this problem with his stud kit.

I personally use the stock pan gasket. Properly tightened, one of those won't even need to be looked at, for 5 years...

The whole "pan gasket problem" is a bit of urban myth...similar to the C/V joint bolt problem....way overstated. Perhaps after many years, the stock pan gasket might compress a bit and the hardware needs to be retightened gently...but that is really easy to do. How easy is it going to be to remove the locking mechanism of this hardware and gently retighten? Seems impossible to do, given the location of 40% of the hardware.

Go look at a 928 and try to access the hardware on the oil pan. Think about how you are going to remove that lock to retighten...and you'll understand.

[mark kibort]

Yep, greg speaks the truth.

[borland]

Yes he does..... but with the silicone rubber gasket, you'll never need to retighten the pan bolts unless you remove the oil pan for some other reason... and if you did with the engine in the engine bay .... you would need to remove most of the bolt access interferences, like steering rack, crossmember, starter, and maybe drop the a/c compressor.

[jon928se]

Originally Posted by GregBBRD

Go look at a 928 and try to access the hardware on the oil pan. Think about how you are going to remove that lock to retighten...and you'll understand.

Don't worry about removing the E-clips in the hard to access places. Unless the engine is on a stand I guess they'ld be near impossible to install in the first place.

[borland]

For the mechanically challenged... an e-clip tool

http://www.amazon.com/Neiko-Tools-E-...=pd_sim_auto_1

[Hilton]

Originally Posted by borland

For the mechanically challenged... an e-clip tool

Uhoh.. a tool I didn't know existed.

Be still my beating wallet!

[928mac]

OK as a mechanic Ill add my 2 cents.
First its a good idea, but
1st. - I would cut the bolts down my self, its a simple, simple, spin a nut down, cut it with a zip cut, touch it up on the grinder and spin the nut off to correct any thread burring.
2nd. - that tool will not work with the engine in place and I have had those clips on speedo cables and such half way on when it goes Twiiiiig and the f#@@8! is gone forever.
3rd. - to much trouble when a little dab of blue Loc-tight will hold the original bolt with out damaging the threads. All of the new aluminum V6 engines have more then a few of these little B@$$#rds at 10 inch #s only held in by blue Loc-tight.

[Lizard931]

I think a stud kit with this type of nut would be best.
The reason is that the stud kit in nice but the self retaining nuts are a pita as they require you undo them the whole way with a wrench. With this you would pop off the retainer clip and lock then just crack the nut free and it will spin off the rest of the way with ease.