Experts: please school us on sealants, threadlockers, anti-seizes, and lubricants
09-20-2010, 06:48 PM
#1
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Experts: please school us on sealants, threadlockers, anti-seizes, and lubricants
Something that's confounded me as long as I've been wrenching (to the extent that I can/do; I'm certainly no mechanic, I just try to maintain my car mostly myself): the subtleties of exactly what sealant, threadlocker, anti-seize, or lube is best for a particular fastener, gasket, other seal, or moving part.
Yeah, I can read the WSM (which sometimes mentions particular sealants, anti-seizes, and threadlockers, some of which are NLA or generally hard to get) and I can read the application notes for various sealants, threadlockers, anti-seizes, and lubricants. For a lot of these products, though, there are huge overlaps in their recommended applications. For example, reading the suggested applications for various gasket sealants and gasket makers from Permatex, you'll find all sorts of overlap. And I just don't have anywhere near enough personal experience to have any confidence at all that I've discovered the best product for a particular application.
So... in summary, the question is: what's the best, proven product to use for each particular situation on a 928? Who better to answer that question than those of you who professionally service these cars and have years of experience to back up your recommendations?
So... give it up, experts! Can we put together a nice reference (e.g., in the style of the "Rob Edwards / Andrew Olson Torque Value Spreadsheet") that would make it easy to answer questions like:
Every time I do a non-trivial 928 wrenching job, I spend way more time than I'd like searching for (or starting!) Rennlist threads trying to determine the best practices (with respect to sealants, threadlockers, anti-seizes, and lubricants) that should be applied during reassembly.
Perhaps we could just start with those of you who would volunteer your initial list of commonly-encountered situations and what you recommend. I'd be glad to mine the posts and organize the offerings into a single, useful reference.
Perhaps there are some general rules that could be included, too. This might make sense for anti-seizes, where I think the particular anti-seize to use is pretty much determined by the two interfacing materials, the maximum operating temperature, and the presence of other materials (like oil, coolant, etc.). Even with anti-seize, though, I think it would be most idiot-proof just to specify what to use for every specific application.
Yeah, I can read the WSM (which sometimes mentions particular sealants, anti-seizes, and threadlockers, some of which are NLA or generally hard to get) and I can read the application notes for various sealants, threadlockers, anti-seizes, and lubricants. For a lot of these products, though, there are huge overlaps in their recommended applications. For example, reading the suggested applications for various gasket sealants and gasket makers from Permatex, you'll find all sorts of overlap. And I just don't have anywhere near enough personal experience to have any confidence at all that I've discovered the best product for a particular application.
So... in summary, the question is: what's the best, proven product to use for each particular situation on a 928? Who better to answer that question than those of you who professionally service these cars and have years of experience to back up your recommendations?
So... give it up, experts! Can we put together a nice reference (e.g., in the style of the "Rob Edwards / Andrew Olson Torque Value Spreadsheet") that would make it easy to answer questions like:
- I'm about to replace my water pump. Do I install the gasket dry? Or use a gasket sealant? Which one? One side or both sides?
- I'm about to install the additional gaskets under the water bridge (to heads) (see '88 Coolant Leak Finally Fixed!); do I install them dry, or use a gasket sealant? One side or both sides?
- I'm about to reinstall my cam covers. Do I use a gasket sealant? Or a gasket maker? Or leave it dry?
- I'm about to install the four bolts that hold down the water bridge. What's the best anti-seize to use?
- I'm about to bolt my cam chain tensioners back in. Do I need to put anything on the bolts? What about the oil feed tubes to the cam chain tensioner?
- I'm about to install the water pump bolts. I'm supposed to use Loctite Red, right? (OK, just wanting to make sure you're awake!
)
Every time I do a non-trivial 928 wrenching job, I spend way more time than I'd like searching for (or starting!) Rennlist threads trying to determine the best practices (with respect to sealants, threadlockers, anti-seizes, and lubricants) that should be applied during reassembly.
Perhaps we could just start with those of you who would volunteer your initial list of commonly-encountered situations and what you recommend. I'd be glad to mine the posts and organize the offerings into a single, useful reference.
Perhaps there are some general rules that could be included, too. This might make sense for anti-seizes, where I think the particular anti-seize to use is pretty much determined by the two interfacing materials, the maximum operating temperature, and the presence of other materials (like oil, coolant, etc.). Even with anti-seize, though, I think it would be most idiot-proof just to specify what to use for every specific application.
Last edited by Ed Scherer; 09-24-2010 at 07:00 PM.
09-20-2010, 07:21 PM
#2
Team Owner
* I'm about to replace my water pump. Do I install the gasket dry? Or use a gasket sealant? Which one? One side or both sides?
For this i use the blue Permatex RTV sealant ( the newer version is a clear to blue color) on the both sides of the WP gasket,
and use a new set of bolts , ACE hardware has them,
Instead of using antiseize on the threads of the WP bolts I use loctite PTFE non setting pipe sealant, this will keep the coolant from leaking into the threaded holes and rusting the new bolts, they can easily be removed years after they were installed.
* I'm about to install the additional gaskets under the water bridge (to heads) (see '88 Coolant Leak Finally Fixed!); do I install them dry, or use a gasket sealant? One side or both sides?
I would suggest to use the Permatex blue RTV sealant same as for the WP gasket.
* I'm about to reinstall my cam covers. Do I use a gasket sealant? Or a gasket maker? Or leave it dry?
For cam covers and depending on whats been taken apart , (for the cam caps ) the parts that capture the cam shaft ends and where the round sealing discs go use loctite 574, just put a thin coating on the mating surface of the cap to head joint, this prevents oil seepage when the parts get hot.
Scrape the surface first with a razor blade held perpendicular to the surface.
For the the cam covers unless you have a perfect cover ( the gasket groove is usually rough) put a bead of Hondabond 4 into the gasket groove just before you set the gasket onto the cover, (dont forget the spark plug gaskets, they go on dry)
Also when fitting the covers there is a small dab of HB4 applied to the junctions of each cam cap to head surface, ( 4 dabs per cover) ,
when you take the old gasket out you should see a dab of white sealant scrape this off first.
* I'm about to install the four bolts that hold down the water bridge. What's the best anti-seize to use?
Again i would suggest to use the loctite PTFE non setting pipe sealant this will prevent liquids from rusting the bolts into the block.
* I'm about to bolt my cam chain tensioners back in. Do I need to put anything on the bolts? What about the oil feed tubes to the cam chain tensioner?
These bolts just need to be clean and , use new sealing washers dont over tighten them.
These are my suggestions,
so far these sealant choices have worked well, there are many other sealant out there so depending on your part of the world different sealants can be found.
Another note my other favorite is a tube of Dow Corning 111, a non setting silicone sealant.
I apply this to all of the rubber O rings it seems to keep them softer, also the door window edge seal, a smear along it and the seal will come back to life dont get any on the window or the felt wiper.
Also the DC111 can be used to refresh the hatch seal after its been scrubbed and left out to dry in the sun.
Use a bead of HB4 in the hatch seal groove just prior to installation this will prevent water migration under the seal edge.
Nother one,
use STP oil treatment in the tensioner,
use a visen bottle to fill the tensioner after removing both bleed nipples,
the visen bottle will not overpressure the bellows and possibly push the internal clamp ring off the boot.
For this i use the blue Permatex RTV sealant ( the newer version is a clear to blue color) on the both sides of the WP gasket,
and use a new set of bolts , ACE hardware has them,
Instead of using antiseize on the threads of the WP bolts I use loctite PTFE non setting pipe sealant, this will keep the coolant from leaking into the threaded holes and rusting the new bolts, they can easily be removed years after they were installed.
* I'm about to install the additional gaskets under the water bridge (to heads) (see '88 Coolant Leak Finally Fixed!); do I install them dry, or use a gasket sealant? One side or both sides?
I would suggest to use the Permatex blue RTV sealant same as for the WP gasket.
* I'm about to reinstall my cam covers. Do I use a gasket sealant? Or a gasket maker? Or leave it dry?
For cam covers and depending on whats been taken apart , (for the cam caps ) the parts that capture the cam shaft ends and where the round sealing discs go use loctite 574, just put a thin coating on the mating surface of the cap to head joint, this prevents oil seepage when the parts get hot.
Scrape the surface first with a razor blade held perpendicular to the surface.
For the the cam covers unless you have a perfect cover ( the gasket groove is usually rough) put a bead of Hondabond 4 into the gasket groove just before you set the gasket onto the cover, (dont forget the spark plug gaskets, they go on dry)
Also when fitting the covers there is a small dab of HB4 applied to the junctions of each cam cap to head surface, ( 4 dabs per cover) ,
when you take the old gasket out you should see a dab of white sealant scrape this off first.
* I'm about to install the four bolts that hold down the water bridge. What's the best anti-seize to use?
Again i would suggest to use the loctite PTFE non setting pipe sealant this will prevent liquids from rusting the bolts into the block.
* I'm about to bolt my cam chain tensioners back in. Do I need to put anything on the bolts? What about the oil feed tubes to the cam chain tensioner?
These bolts just need to be clean and , use new sealing washers dont over tighten them.
These are my suggestions,
so far these sealant choices have worked well, there are many other sealant out there so depending on your part of the world different sealants can be found.
Another note my other favorite is a tube of Dow Corning 111, a non setting silicone sealant.
I apply this to all of the rubber O rings it seems to keep them softer, also the door window edge seal, a smear along it and the seal will come back to life dont get any on the window or the felt wiper.
Also the DC111 can be used to refresh the hatch seal after its been scrubbed and left out to dry in the sun.
Use a bead of HB4 in the hatch seal groove just prior to installation this will prevent water migration under the seal edge.
Nother one,
use STP oil treatment in the tensioner,
use a visen bottle to fill the tensioner after removing both bleed nipples,
the visen bottle will not overpressure the bellows and possibly push the internal clamp ring off the boot.
09-20-2010, 08:35 PM
#4
Rennlist
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Something that's confounded me as long as I've been wrenching (to the extent that I can/do; I'm certainly no mechanic, I just try to maintain my car mostly myself): the subtleties of exactly what sealant, threadlocker, anti-seize, or lube is best for a particular fastener, gasket, other seal, or moving part.
Yeah, I can read the WSM (which sometimes mentions particular sealants, anti-seizes, and threadlockers, some of which are NLA or generally hard to get) and I can read the application notes for various sealants, threadlockers, anti-seizes, and lubricants. For a lot of these products, though, there are huge overlaps in their recommended applications. For example, reading the suggested applications for various gasket sealants and gasket makers from Permatex, you'll find all sorts of overlap. And I just don't have anywhere near enough personal experience to have any confidence at all that I've discovered the best product for a particular application.
So... in summary, the question is: what's the best, proven product to use for each particular situation on a 928? Who better to answer that question than those of you who professionally service these cars and have years of experience to back up your recommendations?
So... give it up, experts! Can we put together a nice reference (e.g., in the style of the "Rob Edwards / Andrew Olson Torque Value Spreadsheet") that would make it easy to answer questions like:
Every time I do a non-trivial 928 wrenching job, I spend way more time than I'd like searching for (or starting!) Rennlist threads trying to determine the best practices (with respect to sealants, threadlockers, anti-seizes, and lubricants) that should be applied during reassembly.
Perhaps we could just start with those of you who would volunteer your initial list of commonly-encountered situations and what you recommend. I'd be glad to mine the posts and organize the offerings into a single, useful reference.
Perhaps there are some general rules that could be included, too. This might make sense for anti-seizes, where I think the particular anti-seize to use is pretty much determined by the two interfacing materials, the maximum operating temperature, and the presence of other materials (like oil, coolant, etc.). Even with anti-seize, though, I think it would be most idiot-proof just to specify what to use for every specific application.
Yeah, I can read the WSM (which sometimes mentions particular sealants, anti-seizes, and threadlockers, some of which are NLA or generally hard to get) and I can read the application notes for various sealants, threadlockers, anti-seizes, and lubricants. For a lot of these products, though, there are huge overlaps in their recommended applications. For example, reading the suggested applications for various gasket sealants and gasket makers from Permatex, you'll find all sorts of overlap. And I just don't have anywhere near enough personal experience to have any confidence at all that I've discovered the best product for a particular application.
So... in summary, the question is: what's the best, proven product to use for each particular situation on a 928? Who better to answer that question than those of you who professionally service these cars and have years of experience to back up your recommendations?
So... give it up, experts! Can we put together a nice reference (e.g., in the style of the "Rob Edwards / Andrew Olson Torque Value Spreadsheet") that would make it easy to answer questions like:
- I'm about to replace my water pump. Do I install the gasket dry? Or use a gasket sealant? Which one? One side or both sides?
- I'm about to install the additional gaskets under the water bridge (to heads) (see '88 Coolant Leak Finally Fixed!); do I install them dry, or use a gasket sealant? One side or both sides?
- I'm about to reinstall my cam covers. Do I use a gasket sealant? Or a gasket maker? Or leave it dry?
- I'm about to install the four bolts that hold down the water bridge. What's the best anti-seize to use?
- I'm about to bolt my cam chain tensioners back in. Do I need to put anything on the bolts? What about the oil feed tubes to the cam chain tensioner?
- I'm about to install the water pump bolts. I'm supposed to use Loctite Red, right? (OK, just wanting to make sure you're awake! )
Every time I do a non-trivial 928 wrenching job, I spend way more time than I'd like searching for (or starting!) Rennlist threads trying to determine the best practices (with respect to sealants, threadlockers, anti-seizes, and lubricants) that should be applied during reassembly.
Perhaps we could just start with those of you who would volunteer your initial list of commonly-encountered situations and what you recommend. I'd be glad to mine the posts and organize the offerings into a single, useful reference.
Perhaps there are some general rules that could be included, too. This might make sense for anti-seizes, where I think the particular anti-seize to use is pretty much determined by the two interfacing materials, the maximum operating temperature, and the presence of other materials (like oil, coolant, etc.). Even with anti-seize, though, I think it would be most idiot-proof just to specify what to use for every specific application.
I use nothing but the factory anti siezes and high pressure grease. There are no other products, that I've found, that even gets close to these lubes. 000 043 004 00 Gold Optimoly. 000 043 020 00 Silver Optimoly. 000 043 024 00 High Pressure Lube. Silver works great on water pump bolts and water cross over bolts (Porsche calls out for this anti-sieze on bolts going into aluminum and they call out of the gold where bolts go into steel.) This stuff is more expensive than other products, but I use it on every car that we work on.
I use Loctite 574 on metal to metal applications.
Porsche has a relatively new product, called Drei bond (which they now use instead of Loctite 574.) It is pretty amazing stuff....it seals better in the presence of oil! I use this in the corners of the valve covers, instead of silicone. 000 043 203 73. Make sure you put the lid back on immediately! I put a thin layer of this on the O-rings that go between the water cross over and the heads. I also use this on the retangular shaped o-ring for the oil filler.
Water pump gasket. I use the "green" Reinz gasket, and install it dry. I also use the factory "blue" gasket...dry.
Blue Loctite on stuff you wnat to get back apart someday and Red Loctite on things you don't want to come apart. I use Green Loctite on studs.
__________________
greg brown
714 879 9072
GregBBRD@aol.com
Semi-retired, as of Feb 1, 2023.
The days of free technical advice are over.
Free consultations will no longer be available.
Will still be in the shop, isolated and exclusively working on project cars, developmental work and products, engines and transmissions.
Have fun with your 928's people!
greg brown
714 879 9072
GregBBRD@aol.com
Semi-retired, as of Feb 1, 2023.
The days of free technical advice are over.
Free consultations will no longer be available.
Will still be in the shop, isolated and exclusively working on project cars, developmental work and products, engines and transmissions.
Have fun with your 928's people!
09-20-2010, 09:16 PM
#7
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
* I'm about to replace my water pump. Do I install the gasket dry? Or use a gasket sealant? Which one? One side or both sides?
For this i use the blue Permatex RTV sealant ( the newer version is a clear to blue color) on the both sides of the WP gasket,
and use a new set of bolts , ACE hardware has them,
Instead of using antiseize on the threads of the WP bolts I use loctite PTFE non setting pipe sealant, this will keep the coolant from leaking into the threaded holes and rusting the new bolts, they can easily be removed years after they were installed.
* I'm about to install the additional gaskets under the water bridge (to heads) (see '88 Coolant Leak Finally Fixed!); do I install them dry, or use a gasket sealant? One side or both sides?
I would suggest to use the Permatex blue RTV sealant same as for the WP gasket.
* I'm about to reinstall my cam covers. Do I use a gasket sealant? Or a gasket maker? Or leave it dry?
For cam covers and depending on whats been taken apart , (for the cam caps ) the parts that capture the cam shaft ends and where the round sealing discs go use loctite 574, just put a thin coating on the mating surface of the cap to head joint, this prevents oil seepage when the parts get hot.
Scrape the surface first with a razor blade held perpendicular to the surface.
For the the cam covers unless you have a perfect cover ( the gasket groove is usually rough) put a bead of Hondabond 4 into the gasket groove just before you set the gasket onto the cover, (dont forget the spark plug gaskets, they go on dry)
Also when fitting the covers there is a small dab of HB4 applied to the junctions of each cam cap to head surface, ( 4 dabs per cover) ,
when you take the old gasket out you should see a dab of white sealant scrape this off first.
* I'm about to install the four bolts that hold down the water bridge. What's the best anti-seize to use?
Again i would suggest to use the loctite PTFE non setting pipe sealant this will prevent liquids from rusting the bolts into the block.
* I'm about to bolt my cam chain tensioners back in. Do I need to put anything on the bolts? What about the oil feed tubes to the cam chain tensioner?
These bolts just need to be clean and , use new sealing washers dont over tighten them.
These are my suggestions,
so far these sealant choices have worked well, there are many other sealant out there so depending on your part of the world different sealants can be found.
Another note my other favorite is a tube of Dow Corning 111, a non setting silicone sealant.
I apply this to all of the rubber O rings it seems to keep them softer, also the door window edge seal, a smear along it and the seal will come back to life dont get any on the window or the felt wiper.
Also the DC111 can be used to refresh the hatch seal after its been scrubbed and left out to dry in the sun.
Use a bead of HB4 in the hatch seal groove just prior to installation this will prevent water migration under the seal edge.
Nother one,
use STP oil treatment in the tensioner,
use a visen bottle to fill the tensioner after removing both bleed nipples,
the visen bottle will not overpressure the bellows and possibly push the internal clamp ring off the boot.
For this i use the blue Permatex RTV sealant ( the newer version is a clear to blue color) on the both sides of the WP gasket,
and use a new set of bolts , ACE hardware has them,
Instead of using antiseize on the threads of the WP bolts I use loctite PTFE non setting pipe sealant, this will keep the coolant from leaking into the threaded holes and rusting the new bolts, they can easily be removed years after they were installed.
* I'm about to install the additional gaskets under the water bridge (to heads) (see '88 Coolant Leak Finally Fixed!); do I install them dry, or use a gasket sealant? One side or both sides?
I would suggest to use the Permatex blue RTV sealant same as for the WP gasket.
* I'm about to reinstall my cam covers. Do I use a gasket sealant? Or a gasket maker? Or leave it dry?
For cam covers and depending on whats been taken apart , (for the cam caps ) the parts that capture the cam shaft ends and where the round sealing discs go use loctite 574, just put a thin coating on the mating surface of the cap to head joint, this prevents oil seepage when the parts get hot.
Scrape the surface first with a razor blade held perpendicular to the surface.
For the the cam covers unless you have a perfect cover ( the gasket groove is usually rough) put a bead of Hondabond 4 into the gasket groove just before you set the gasket onto the cover, (dont forget the spark plug gaskets, they go on dry)
Also when fitting the covers there is a small dab of HB4 applied to the junctions of each cam cap to head surface, ( 4 dabs per cover) ,
when you take the old gasket out you should see a dab of white sealant scrape this off first.
* I'm about to install the four bolts that hold down the water bridge. What's the best anti-seize to use?
Again i would suggest to use the loctite PTFE non setting pipe sealant this will prevent liquids from rusting the bolts into the block.
* I'm about to bolt my cam chain tensioners back in. Do I need to put anything on the bolts? What about the oil feed tubes to the cam chain tensioner?
These bolts just need to be clean and , use new sealing washers dont over tighten them.
These are my suggestions,
so far these sealant choices have worked well, there are many other sealant out there so depending on your part of the world different sealants can be found.
Another note my other favorite is a tube of Dow Corning 111, a non setting silicone sealant.
I apply this to all of the rubber O rings it seems to keep them softer, also the door window edge seal, a smear along it and the seal will come back to life dont get any on the window or the felt wiper.
Also the DC111 can be used to refresh the hatch seal after its been scrubbed and left out to dry in the sun.
Use a bead of HB4 in the hatch seal groove just prior to installation this will prevent water migration under the seal edge.
Nother one,
use STP oil treatment in the tensioner,
use a visen bottle to fill the tensioner after removing both bleed nipples,
the visen bottle will not overpressure the bellows and possibly push the internal clamp ring off the boot.
).The cam chain tensioner pad question, though, actually is timely and your response will be guiding my actions within the next week.
These are, though, merely the beginnings of what are probably hundreds of similar questions that it would be great to have answers for.
This is a good start.
I'm anticipating different choices; hopefully, this just indicates that various acceptable alternatives exist and perhaps the absence of a provably best solution.
Porsche has a relatively new product, called Drei bond (which they now use instead of Loctite 574.) It is pretty amazing stuff....it seals better in the presence of oil! I use this in the corners of the valve covers, instead of silicone. 000 043 203 73. Make sure you put the lid back on immediately! I put a thin layer of this on the O-rings that go between the water cross over and the heads. I also use this on the retangular shaped o-ring for the oil filler.
Thanks for the rest of your recommendations.
Last edited by Ed Scherer; 09-21-2010 at 06:44 PM.
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09-21-2010, 12:02 AM
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09-21-2010, 07:29 PM
#9
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OK, after a little more research, I found the following:
Drei Bond 1209
Drei Bond 1209 (a.k.a. Porsche 000.043.203.73) is a silicone based gasket sealant (or gasket maker?). This appears to be the one that GregBBRD says is being used now instead of Loctite 574.
Drei Bond 1194
Drei Bond 1194 (replaces older 1104 that contained hazardous chemicals) is apparently a direct replacement for Honda Bond, YamaBond 4, Suzuki 99000-31010, and Kawasaki Bond 56019-120.
"ThreeBond 1194 is a semidrying liquid gasket whose major component is special synthetic rubber. After it is applied and dried, it will form a rubber-like elastic body. Since it excels in padding property, it shows a high sealing effect on bonded surfaces that have poor flatness and large clearance. In addition, it has excellent resistance to water, oil and gasoline."
"Uses: Sealing of flange surfaces and threaded portions; Applicable to sealing of flange surfaces having large clearance"
This family of gasket makers (or gasket sealants?) seems to be quite popular for sealing cam covers (as noted by Mrmerlin) and maybe some other gaskets.
New Questions
I'd be interested to know the relative merits of the two sealants/makers mentioned above — Drei Bond 1209 vs. 1194 (and the latter's "motorcycle company" equivalents) — as now I've seen mention of both for the cam cover gasket.
I'm still also confused about gasket sealants vs. gasket makers. Seems like products called "gasket makers" are also sometimes recommended in gasket sealing applicaitons (i.e., there's already a gasket). I'd expect that a sealant would be called for in that case. Are gasket makers also generally acceptable for use as gasket sealers, too?
One Current Challenge, Example of Alternative Solutions
Of personal interest to me at the moment is that I'll be putting my cam/valve (not sure which is the preferred term) covers back on within the next week and have seen, so far, in this thread and other threads (and an e-mail message) at least three different recommendations for what to do regarding sealant choice and how much and where to apply (one side/both sides). I've got nice, clean, bare metal (thoroughly media blasted as part of powder coating) in the gasket channel on the covers. Probably another case of "many things will work OK". Of course, the perfect solution will not leak, and it will also be easy to deal with upon future disassembly.
Drei Bond 1209
Drei Bond 1209 (a.k.a. Porsche 000.043.203.73) is a silicone based gasket sealant (or gasket maker?). This appears to be the one that GregBBRD says is being used now instead of Loctite 574.
Drei Bond 1194
Drei Bond 1194 (replaces older 1104 that contained hazardous chemicals) is apparently a direct replacement for Honda Bond, YamaBond 4, Suzuki 99000-31010, and Kawasaki Bond 56019-120.
"ThreeBond 1194 is a semidrying liquid gasket whose major component is special synthetic rubber. After it is applied and dried, it will form a rubber-like elastic body. Since it excels in padding property, it shows a high sealing effect on bonded surfaces that have poor flatness and large clearance. In addition, it has excellent resistance to water, oil and gasoline."
"Uses: Sealing of flange surfaces and threaded portions; Applicable to sealing of flange surfaces having large clearance"
This family of gasket makers (or gasket sealants?) seems to be quite popular for sealing cam covers (as noted by Mrmerlin) and maybe some other gaskets.
New Questions
I'd be interested to know the relative merits of the two sealants/makers mentioned above — Drei Bond 1209 vs. 1194 (and the latter's "motorcycle company" equivalents) — as now I've seen mention of both for the cam cover gasket.
I'm still also confused about gasket sealants vs. gasket makers. Seems like products called "gasket makers" are also sometimes recommended in gasket sealing applicaitons (i.e., there's already a gasket). I'd expect that a sealant would be called for in that case. Are gasket makers also generally acceptable for use as gasket sealers, too?
One Current Challenge, Example of Alternative Solutions
Of personal interest to me at the moment is that I'll be putting my cam/valve (not sure which is the preferred term) covers back on within the next week and have seen, so far
, in this thread and other threads (and an e-mail message) at least three different recommendations for what to do regarding sealant choice and how much and where to apply (one side/both sides). I've got nice, clean, bare metal (thoroughly media blasted as part of powder coating) in the gasket channel on the covers. Probably another case of "many things will work OK". Of course, the perfect solution will not leak, and it will also be easy to deal with upon future disassembly.
Last edited by Ed Scherer; 09-22-2010 at 12:59 AM.
09-21-2010, 11:18 PM
#10
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Most critical fasteners that have a specified tightening torque also list the lubricant to use or if the bolt should be dry. Typical fastener torque specs are based on using a 30W regular petroleum engine oil. Slippery lubes lower the required tightening force as much as 40% so it's important to use the proper lube to prevent under or over tightening that can lead to failure or loosening of the fastener.
09-21-2010, 11:47 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
I used red Loctite on my driveshaft clamp last time I checked/adjusted it. Buying a super-clamp next time aside, how bad is it to break the red loctite loose? I'm guessing what's going to happen (assuming it creeped) is, I'll loosen the cheezehead bolt on the clamp to loosen the tension; but, it won't slide back because of the loctite. I'll then have to take a torch to it and heat it--and then when it's hot enough, the loctite will burn off and the clamp will slide back (detension). I just want to make sure I don't overcook something.
Thanks / Bruce
Thanks / Bruce
09-22-2010, 10:46 AM
#12
Three Wheelin'
I used red Loctite on my driveshaft clamp last time I checked/adjusted it. Buying a super-clamp next time aside, how bad is it to break the red loctite loose? I'm guessing what's going to happen (assuming it creeped) is, I'll loosen the cheezehead bolt on the clamp to loosen the tension; but, it won't slide back because of the loctite. I'll then have to take a torch to it and heat it--and then when it's hot enough, the loctite will burn off and the clamp will slide back (detension). I just want to make sure I don't overcook something.
Thanks / Bruce
Thanks / Bruce
09-22-2010, 10:54 AM
#13
I pretty much use what Greg Brown has stated. Except I use the Drie Bond on the water pump gasket. Stopped using RTV after a talk with him a while back.
09-22-2010, 11:11 AM
#14
Supercharged
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For the most part, I use what the WSM calls for. Copper antisieze, silver antisieze, high temp grease, and anarobic gasket maker (574) where indicated. For a more general purpose sealant (like for the four corners of the cam cover gasket) I've used "The right stuff" with great succes. I also use it on the SCer gasket.
Just another datapoint.
Just another datapoint.
09-22-2010, 12:20 PM
#15
Addict
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Thread Starter
That's one of the things that I'd really like to nail down with more precision: exact identification (e.g. by manufacturer/brand and product number) of these various products. I've see so many threads where somebody mentions that they use "black RTV", or "Permatext grey" or some such, and then I try to read up on it and discover that there's half a dozen (at least) possible products that fit that description, and they might be significantly different (e.g., silicone based or synthetic rubber based or whatever).