'86.5 5-speed, 321 rwhp (std)

PorKen · 09-22-2011, 08:45 PM

320 (STandarD correction) has been my goal since I first got a S3. Really didn't think it was possible.

Mods/stock:
S300s v3.5 chipset + TQrings
PK crank breather system*
Two degrees cam retard*
intake gasket matching*
NGK BP8ES 1.0mm gap
PorKensioner/PKT
HeX-pipe
H-RMB*
'87 S4 FPR
stock air filter
stock injectors
airpump delete
airbox lid delete
belt driven fan delete
stock '86.5 mid exhaust

*changes since last dyno

SAE 313/308

mx22 · 09-22-2011, 08:52 PM

there is something really strange going on under your hood

BC · 09-22-2011, 08:54 PM

Very good Ken. I thunk you could get to 350 if you can run e85 and utilize the fuel's ability to take more advance and create more power from additional combustible mass in the chamber. 5% from the combustible mass increase and 5% from the advanced timing.

You may need to retune to 42lb injectors though.

BC · 09-22-2011, 08:56 PM

Which radiator is that?

Tom. M · 09-22-2011, 08:58 PM

Very nice.... so what are the numbers with SAE correction (so others can aspire to them too)?

..

PorKen · 09-22-2011, 09:01 PM

928 Motorsports rad, IIRC.

SAE 313 HP/308 TQ

SAE is a B. It was really tough to get over 300 at SAE air temps. STD air temp is a bit more realistic for the PacNW.

No knocks, BTW.

atb · 09-22-2011, 09:02 PM

Ya know, it wouldn't kill a guy to put a little paint on that intake manifold.

Probably good for an extra 5hp too.

Iwanna928 · 09-22-2011, 09:36 PM

That is awesome! That is more than if I supercharged my OB! Awesome job and she has got to be a blast to drive!

ericono · 09-22-2011, 09:53 PM

Very nice!

Sorry if these are less than intelligent questions, but what is the 90 degree pipe in the front of the engine? And was the air box and plumbing hurting air flow? Just asking because I would have figured you'd have gotten colder air by leaving it on or going to a straight, larger diameter piping I've seen on some cars.

Just curious to better understand the logic behind the changes.

Thanks!

Shane · 09-22-2011, 09:56 PM

Nice work Ken!

PorKen · 09-22-2011, 10:14 PM

At <3100 lbs with me and a half tank, it's a lot of fun.

Painfully loud with the RMB and cam retard, though. I'm going out now to put it's mod'ed pumpkin back on.

The 90° pipe is an oil/vapor separator/surge tank. Taking the airbox lid off will probably make less power on a street car, but I don't have a radiator or firewall seal so it stays cool.

Thx, Shane!

Notice how calm the red line is, even with very little smoothing. That's what the dyno runs sounded like. Couldn't really tell it was pulling the big #s. Do-dee-do-dee-do, just rolling along.

Except for noise, -2° timing doesn't seem to have any drawbacks. Same TQ as +2°, just a few hundred RPM higher. (Using a 32V'r, -2° is 'straight up', like a 16V cam would be set.)

heinrich · 09-22-2011, 10:52 PM

Very nice work

Jon B. · 09-22-2011, 11:44 PM

Excellent work. Everyone with an S4 is waiting on you to buy one and start tinkering I bet!

NeverLate · 09-22-2011, 11:57 PM

Yes we are...

FredR · 09-23-2011, 05:43 AM

Ken,
As always a fascinating post. Although somewhat imprecise, it would be interesting to see your best estimate of the incremental difference each of these mods has made.

I have always believed the stock intake system upstream of the MAF to be restrictive so interesting that you have the filter intake cover removed. I modified a stock cover and cut apertures in the upper back to permit free flow of air. I also removed the firewall seal on the possibility that there is a pressure gradient at speed in front on the windscreen that might induce flow into the air box not to mention the lower induction pressure at the mouth of the box caused by engine vacuum. I felt it ran well but could not prove that. Unfortunately, in a house move, the modified cover got accidentally slung so no more progress on that one over the last two years. Hence my interest in what this mod may be worth on the dyno.

If I was to make an educated guess in round terms I would think the following might be somewhere close:
1. Chips 10 BHP
2. Exhaust 10 BHP
3. Air box 5 bhp
4. Cams 10 BHP
5. Rings [piston rings?] + optimal crankcase venting 10 BHP

This assumes good stock would around 275 rwhp- your thoughts in this regard appreciated

Regards

Fred R

09-22-2011, 08:45 PM	#1
PorKen Inventor Rennlist Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 7,469	'86.5 5-speed, 321 rwhp (std) 320 (STandarD correction) has been my goal since I first got a S3. Really didn't think it was possible. Mods/stock: S300s v3.5 chipset + TQrings PK crank breather system* Two degrees cam retard* intake gasket matching* NGK BP8ES 1.0mm gap PorKensioner/PKT HeX-pipe H-RMB* '87 S4 FPR stock air filter stock injectors airpump delete airbox lid delete belt driven fan delete stock '86.5 mid exhaust changes since last dyno SAE 313/308 __________________ 1986·5 928S³ grandprixweiß weinrot* #1195 » full leather, lsd auto « 3400#/-12° 1986·5 928S³ schwarz........schwarz #2824 » race ready, lsd 5-sp « 2900#/-12° liftbars.com porken.com S300s.com Last edited by PorKen; 09-25-2011 at 03:00 PM.

09-22-2011, 08:52 PM	#2
mx22 Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 544	there is something really strange going on under your hood __________________ Alexei '87 928 S4 --- Guards Red ---> 2057

09-22-2011, 08:58 PM	#5
Tom. M Deleted Rennlist Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: PAC NW Posts: 4,000	Very nice.... so what are the numbers with SAE correction (so others can aspire to them too)? .. __________________ Later, Tom 89GT 82 bodied/91 megasquirted engine/GTS flared/328 rwhp 385 ft-lbs/Track Car in progress "With the 928, Porsche built a lightsaber, only to discover that people still liked their switchblades." "Charter Member 928 Owners Club"

09-22-2011, 09:02 PM	#7
atb Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Puyallup, WA Posts: 3,866	Ya know, it wouldn't kill a guy to put a little paint on that intake manifold. Probably good for an extra 5hp too. __________________ Adam Birnbaum '88 S4 A/T Schwartz PacNW 928 Proud Member of 928 Owner's Club

09-22-2011, 09:36 PM	#8
Iwanna928 Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Woodstock Ga. Posts: 1,404	That is awesome! That is more than if I supercharged my OB! Awesome job and she has got to be a blast to drive! __________________ Stephen 1979 928 5spd w/ Headers and 85 Euro cam's Currently 225rwhp and 247rwtq. 1985 Euro S 5spd! Lots of mods!

09-22-2011, 08:54 PM	#3
BC Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 20,077	Very good Ken. I thunk you could get to 350 if you can run e85 and utilize the fuel's ability to take more advance and create more power from additional combustible mass in the chamber. 5% from the combustible mass increase and 5% from the advanced timing. You may need to retune to 42lb injectors though.

09-22-2011, 08:56 PM	#4
BC Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 20,077	Which radiator is that?

09-22-2011, 09:01 PM	#6
PorKen Inventor Rennlist Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 7,469	928 Motorsports rad, IIRC. SAE 313 HP/308 TQ SAE is a B. It was really tough to get over 300 at SAE air temps. STD air temp is a bit more realistic for the PacNW. No knocks, BTW.

09-22-2011, 09:53 PM	#9
ericono New User Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 2	Very nice! Sorry if these are less than intelligent questions, but what is the 90 degree pipe in the front of the engine? And was the air box and plumbing hurting air flow? Just asking because I would have figured you'd have gotten colder air by leaving it on or going to a straight, larger diameter piping I've seen on some cars. Just curious to better understand the logic behind the changes. Thanks!

09-22-2011, 09:56 PM	#10
Shane Sharkaholic Lifetime Rennlist Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Rochester, WA Posts: 5,011	Nice work Ken! __________________ Heidi... '86 928S #0223 Garnet Red Metallic/Burgundy auto (crispy) Helmut '86.5 928S 5sp #1396 Guards Red/Slate Gray 32Vr -1° +1° Beth... '86.5 928S Auto #2641 Garnet Red Metallic/Burgundy Stage III Supershark 32Vr -2° 0° Zelda.. '86.5 928S 5sp #2698 Meteor Metallic/Burgundy LSD Sharkvent 32Vr +2° +4°

09-22-2011, 10:14 PM	#11
PorKen Inventor Rennlist Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 7,469	At <3100 lbs with me and a half tank, it's a lot of fun. Painfully loud with the RMB and cam retard, though. I'm going out now to put it's mod'ed pumpkin back on. The 90° pipe is an oil/vapor separator/surge tank. Taking the airbox lid off will probably make less power on a street car, but I don't have a radiator or firewall seal so it stays cool. Thx, Shane! Notice how calm the red line is, even with very little smoothing. That's what the dyno runs sounded like. Couldn't really tell it was pulling the big #s. Do-dee-do-dee-do, just rolling along. Except for noise, -2° timing doesn't seem to have any drawbacks. Same TQ as +2°, just a few hundred RPM higher. (Using a 32V'r, -2° is 'straight up', like a 16V cam would be set.)

09-22-2011, 10:52 PM	#12
heinrich 928 Collector Rennlist Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Seattle Posts: 17,189	Very nice work __________________ "Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it" ... Proudly South African vvvvv GT engine for my GTS vvvvvv

09-22-2011, 11:44 PM	#13
Jon B. Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Linden, NC Posts: 1,047	Excellent work. Everyone with an S4 is waiting on you to buy one and start tinkering I bet!

09-22-2011, 11:57 PM	#14
NeverLate Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Duvall, WA Posts: 3,059	Yes we are... __________________ Ed '88 S4 5 sp

09-23-2011, 05:43 AM	#15
FredR Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Oman Posts: 489	Ken, As always a fascinating post. Although somewhat imprecise, it would be interesting to see your best estimate of the incremental difference each of these mods has made. I have always believed the stock intake system upstream of the MAF to be restrictive so interesting that you have the filter intake cover removed. I modified a stock cover and cut apertures in the upper back to permit free flow of air. I also removed the firewall seal on the possibility that there is a pressure gradient at speed in front on the windscreen that might induce flow into the air box not to mention the lower induction pressure at the mouth of the box caused by engine vacuum. I felt it ran well but could not prove that. Unfortunately, in a house move, the modified cover got accidentally slung so no more progress on that one over the last two years. Hence my interest in what this mod may be worth on the dyno. If I was to make an educated guess in round terms I would think the following might be somewhere close: 1. Chips 10 BHP 2. Exhaust 10 BHP 3. Air box 5 bhp 4. Cams 10 BHP 5. Rings [piston rings?] + optimal crankcase venting 10 BHP This assumes good stock would around 275 rwhp- your thoughts in this regard appreciated Regards Fred R __________________ Fred R 1993 GTS Cobalt Blue Needs blowing [soon?]!

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