WPO vs. WP0
08-14-2013, 11:44 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
WPO vs. WP0
I just discovered a weird issue with my VIN number, and am wondering if anyone else has seen this.
I went to get an emissions test and registration renewal last week. At DEQ (the emissions testing station), they told me that the third letter of my VIN was the letter "O", not the number '0". and, because of this, that they couldn't renew my registration. I was really surprised at this, since I've had the car since 2005, and have renewed the registration multiple times.
After much heated discussion, they performed the emissions test, but said I would have to go to DMV to have the VIN issue resolved before I could have my registration renewed. After a week of research, I've learned the following:
- VIN numbers in the U.S. never use the letters O or I, to avoid the kind of problem I'm having.
- The stamped VIN numbers on my car definitely have the number 0 in the third position.
- The VIN number on the decal on the door jamb of my car appears to have the letter "O" in the third position. It is circular, rather than the oval character on the stamped VINs.
- There is a bar code on that decal that DEQ reads to get the VIN number. I can't read it, but assume it has an "O", rather than "0".
- DEQ's records show that the first emissions test I had in 2007 was recorded under a VIN with a zero. The next three tests show an "O" in the VIN. But nobody complained until this time.
- Both DEQ and DMV are puzzled by this, but assure me that I can renew my registration if I come into a DMV office.
It's strange, but it appears that the VIN decal on the door jamb was printed incorrectly. Has anyone seen anything like this before?
I went to get an emissions test and registration renewal last week. At DEQ (the emissions testing station), they told me that the third letter of my VIN was the letter "O", not the number '0". and, because of this, that they couldn't renew my registration. I was really surprised at this, since I've had the car since 2005, and have renewed the registration multiple times.
After much heated discussion, they performed the emissions test, but said I would have to go to DMV to have the VIN issue resolved before I could have my registration renewed. After a week of research, I've learned the following:
- VIN numbers in the U.S. never use the letters O or I, to avoid the kind of problem I'm having.
- The stamped VIN numbers on my car definitely have the number 0 in the third position.
- The VIN number on the decal on the door jamb of my car appears to have the letter "O" in the third position. It is circular, rather than the oval character on the stamped VINs.
- There is a bar code on that decal that DEQ reads to get the VIN number. I can't read it, but assume it has an "O", rather than "0".
- DEQ's records show that the first emissions test I had in 2007 was recorded under a VIN with a zero. The next three tests show an "O" in the VIN. But nobody complained until this time.
- Both DEQ and DMV are puzzled by this, but assure me that I can renew my registration if I come into a DMV office.
It's strange, but it appears that the VIN decal on the door jamb was printed incorrectly. Has anyone seen anything like this before?
08-15-2013, 05:18 AM
#3
Rennlist Member
Not 'PO' for Porsche ?
No, its W=West Germany, P=Porsche, 0= Pass vehicle, 1=SUV etc...
Curious that MB use WDB throughout (Daimler-Benz), and other positions for type of vehicle.
Many people (outside of Alan's 10) are completely unconscious of the difference between 0 and O- ask some to read a serial number off something and they will say OH for zero, even when there may be no letters in the list.
jp 83 Euro S AT 55k
No, its W=West Germany, P=Porsche, 0= Pass vehicle, 1=SUV etc...
Curious that MB use WDB throughout (Daimler-Benz), and other positions for type of vehicle.
Many people (outside of Alan's 10) are completely unconscious of the difference between 0 and O- ask some to read a serial number off something and they will say OH for zero, even when there may be no letters in the list.
jp 83 Euro S AT 55k
08-15-2013, 08:48 AM
#4
Rennlist Member
08-15-2013, 10:40 AM
#5
Race Car
Always "0" (Zero) but many state DMV's have mis-entered the letter "O" in the past and you'll find some CarFax/AutoCheck/Vin Check's with an "oh" instead of a "Zero." You need to get it fixed. It's their error.
08-15-2013, 12:31 PM
#6
Burning Brakes
Hi,
I have the original 1983 car title (in a safe place at home and keep a copy on the car
), and as you can see, at least in my case, it’s easy for anyone that doesn’t know what it is to call “O” instead of “0”!
It as letters before and after so it must also be a letter….
Regards
I have the original 1983 car title (in a safe place at home and keep a copy on the car
), and as you can see, at least in my case, it’s easy for anyone that doesn’t know what it is to call “O” instead of “0”!It as letters before and after so it must also be a letter….
Regards
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08-15-2013, 03:37 PM
#8
Shameful Thread Killer
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I ran into about two weeks of misery with the TX DMV on my 968 with this. I bought the car without title so it had to get both a VIN inspection and also a valuation report. Both shops recorded it as a O letter and not a number. I corrected both of them. Then, I took the reports to the DMV which had no activity on the car VIN for more than 5 years, so it was scrubbed from the DB. In the confusion, someone at the DMV put it in as a O letter and it came back as "VIN not in compliance" or some such, and thus the ownership title was rejected. I went back to the DMV and advised them that it was a 0 zero number and they couldn't make that work as it was already in the system with a O letter. After two weeks of fighting at the state DMV level they had to manually edit the data base, take out the WPO which was rejected, insert the correct 0 number and then to a search for existing records. None found, they gave me a title and my bond was saved from having to pay me $14,856 and take the car to the crusher.
Seems very few people in the DMV office even know their own regs.
Seems very few people in the DMV office even know their own regs.
08-15-2013, 10:06 PM
#9
Instructor
Thread Starter
08-15-2013, 10:08 PM
#10
Instructor
Thread Starter
Wow. So far my issue hasn't gone any further than inconvenience. Nothing like what you went through.
I ran into about two weeks of misery with the TX DMV on my 968 with this. I bought the car without title so it had to get both a VIN inspection and also a valuation report. Both shops recorded it as a O letter and not a number. I corrected both of them. Then, I took the reports to the DMV which had no activity on the car VIN for more than 5 years, so it was scrubbed from the DB. In the confusion, someone at the DMV put it in as a O letter and it came back as "VIN not in compliance" or some such, and thus the ownership title was rejected. I went back to the DMV and advised them that it was a 0 zero number and they couldn't make that work as it was already in the system with a O letter. After two weeks of fighting at the state DMV level they had to manually edit the data base, take out the WPO which was rejected, insert the correct 0 number and then to a search for existing records. None found, they gave me a title and my bond was saved from having to pay me $14,856 and take the car to the crusher.
Seems very few people in the DMV office even know their own regs.
Seems very few people in the DMV office even know their own regs.
08-16-2013, 08:58 PM
#12
Rennlist Member
Note that in Ricardo's original rego slip the zero in the serial number at the end is the same character as that in 'WP?', so that might tell you something...unless they are both letter O.
This might be due to differences in typewriter type faces. On my factory invoice copy, all the obvious number zero characters have squarish corners ( option numbers, DM amounts - Total=DM 104,487.34), where the obvious Ohs are nice ovals, as in INVOICE, PORSCHE, DATE OF etc (all in caps I note). All of these are typed, not preprinted text of course.
Then when I look at the fine pre-printed text on the invoice, numeral zero is an oval, but Ohs are pretty much a perfect circle - as in COBA.
On the Tourist program document, preprinted zeros are oval, but typed zeros....go like this:
WPOZZZ92ZDS84o812, and 31.o1.1983-28.o2.1983.
Great source of confusion.
I once worked with a Tally computer printer that showed zeros with diagonal bars, to distinguish them from O. Customer asked us to get rid of the bars, as too many of their customers whose statements showed 0.00 (with bars) were sending in cheques for 8.88.
jp 83 Euro S AT 55k
This might be due to differences in typewriter type faces. On my factory invoice copy, all the obvious number zero characters have squarish corners ( option numbers, DM amounts - Total=DM 104,487.34), where the obvious Ohs are nice ovals, as in INVOICE, PORSCHE, DATE OF etc (all in caps I note). All of these are typed, not preprinted text of course.
Then when I look at the fine pre-printed text on the invoice, numeral zero is an oval, but Ohs are pretty much a perfect circle - as in COBA.
On the Tourist program document, preprinted zeros are oval, but typed zeros....go like this:
WPOZZZ92ZDS84o812, and 31.o1.1983-28.o2.1983.
Great source of confusion.
I once worked with a Tally computer printer that showed zeros with diagonal bars, to distinguish them from O. Customer asked us to get rid of the bars, as too many of their customers whose statements showed 0.00 (with bars) were sending in cheques for 8.88.
jp 83 Euro S AT 55k
08-17-2013, 07:18 AM
#13
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Join Date: Jun 2010
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Almost as much fun as misreading the letter O vs 0 on ones passport number when filling an ESTA and then not having a clue why the my passport gets rejected during machine reading.
08-17-2013, 05:59 PM
#14
Drifting
I had the same problem with N.J.DMV!! They couldn't understand why my '83 928euroS had the VIN # WP0ZZZ92ZDS841138. They somehow thought it should have a U.S. VIN#. ( HINT-HINT it's a EUROPEAN CAR!!! NOT your mothers Plymouth!) I had to back to the same office 5 times!! Finally, I told her I could go up to Trenton and ask the Director of Motor Vehicles why she is so stupid if she thought that would help her out. Faced with that alternative, she got me paperwork done in 10 minutes!!!
08-17-2013, 06:51 PM
#15
Instructor
Thread Starter
On the sticker on the driver's door jam, the third character is a perfect circle, so it's not surprising that it gets read as the letter "O" from time to time.
However, the problem here seems to be with the bar code on that same sticker. Either it's coded as the letter "O", or (more likely) there's a problem with the DEQ bar code software. I should find out which is the case this week.
However, the problem here seems to be with the bar code on that same sticker. Either it's coded as the letter "O", or (more likely) there's a problem with the DEQ bar code software. I should find out which is the case this week.
Note that in Ricardo's original rego slip the zero in the serial number at the end is the same character as that in 'WP?', so that might tell you something...unless they are both letter O.
This might be due to differences in typewriter type faces. On my factory invoice copy, all the obvious number zero characters have squarish corners ( option numbers, DM amounts - Total=DM 104,487.34), where the obvious Ohs are nice ovals, as in INVOICE, PORSCHE, DATE OF etc (all in caps I note). All of these are typed, not preprinted text of course.
Then when I look at the fine pre-printed text on the invoice, numeral zero is an oval, but Ohs are pretty much a perfect circle - as in COBA.
On the Tourist program document, preprinted zeros are oval, but typed zeros....go like this:
WPOZZZ92ZDS84o812, and 31.o1.1983-28.o2.1983.
Great source of confusion.
I once worked with a Tally computer printer that showed zeros with diagonal bars, to distinguish them from O. Customer asked us to get rid of the bars, as too many of their customers whose statements showed 0.00 (with bars) were sending in cheques for 8.88.
jp 83 Euro S AT 55k
This might be due to differences in typewriter type faces. On my factory invoice copy, all the obvious number zero characters have squarish corners ( option numbers, DM amounts - Total=DM 104,487.34), where the obvious Ohs are nice ovals, as in INVOICE, PORSCHE, DATE OF etc (all in caps I note). All of these are typed, not preprinted text of course.
Then when I look at the fine pre-printed text on the invoice, numeral zero is an oval, but Ohs are pretty much a perfect circle - as in COBA.
On the Tourist program document, preprinted zeros are oval, but typed zeros....go like this:
WPOZZZ92ZDS84o812, and 31.o1.1983-28.o2.1983.
Great source of confusion.
I once worked with a Tally computer printer that showed zeros with diagonal bars, to distinguish them from O. Customer asked us to get rid of the bars, as too many of their customers whose statements showed 0.00 (with bars) were sending in cheques for 8.88.
jp 83 Euro S AT 55k