Shane

Greg I value your opinion and experience in the 928 AND ALL its many systems, but I must say the intake rings are the best thing to appear for the '85-'86.5 since sliced bread.

They fill the gap that otherwise is just a nice convenient gap for those oiled up (from the crankcase oil vapors) boots to slide into and cause an intake leak.

I don't know if they do anything other than that and I don't care if they don't, just that when you put them in and then seat the plenum and crank down the 20 boot clamps the damn things stay there and don't leak.

So Thank You Ken for your rings!! And yes Greg we're "Fricking serious"...



Now lets get back to some awesome Headers that will make a boosted S3 fly...

Captain_Slow

deleted

GregBBRD

Sorry. I misunderstood., completely.

I thought they were meant to improve performance, not keep the oil away from the boots to keep the intake pieces from slipping apart.

I've not had trouble with the intake pieces slipping apart, due to the oil that gets into the boots, so I naturally ignored that as an area that needed a special piece to help with that issue.

From a performance standpoint, these are comical....very reminiscent of something that J.C. Whitney would have offered in the 1970's. And yes, I do realize that J.C. Whitney sold millions of dollars of intake whirlygigs, spark plug variations, magnets to change the airflow, and other stuff that did absolutely nothing. I also realize that the snake oil salesmen of the wild west made a fantastic living selling their products, traveling from town to town.

It's undisputed human nature for people to believe that their purchases are extremely smart and very beneficial....no matter how worthless that purchase turns out to be.....that has been proven thousands of times.

My comments come strictly from a "performance enhancing" point of view....trying to point out that if someone is looking for a performance change, they might want to mute their expectations, a bit.

GregBBRD

There was recently a thread that addressed this entire '85/'86 issue.

I'll try and find it to reference you, to it. Interesting reading.

GregBBRD

A couple notes in blue, for you.

ptuomov

I do enjoy commenting and criticizing people's products, including yours, that's true. I do want to understand how they work and whether the claimed operating mechanisms make sense. However, my conclusions aren't always negative. For example, in case of your products, two positive examples come to mind immediately: (1) The system to connect the external and internal oil coolers in series and (2) the oil pan spacer. That's not an exhaustive list, just the first two that come to mind. I also think that the header effort has been well thought out, for what it's worth.

GregBBRD

I'm so glad you enjoy criticizing my stuff.

I really do enjoy spending weeks and weeks designing, developing, and testing things....for the benefit of 928 people everywhere....to have threads and my stuff trashed with criticism!

Makes it all so worthwhile!

If I might ask.....
What exactly, is your agenda, on this thread? Only to rip things apart, for the "enjoyment" of doing that, or do you own an '85/'86 vehicle that these headers would be appropriate for and have meaningful questions?

ptuomov

Name one unfair criticism or untrue statement that I've made in this thread and I'll redact it.

GregBBRD

I'll settle for you just answering the question I just asked......which you completely ignored.

What exactly, is your agenda, on this thread? Only to rip things apart, for the "enjoyment" of doing that, or do you own an '85/'86 vehicle that these headers would be appropriate for and have meaningful questions?

Or to simplify it:

Do you feel that tearing apart people's products is beneficial to the long term health of the 928 community and the vehicles they own? Is this an effort to have people (like me) quit developing pieces for our cars, or just pure negativity, for the sake of being negative?

Hell, I just went back and re-read what you posted, so you answered part of my question, before I asked it!

"I do enjoy commenting and criticizing people's products, including yours, that's true".

What a truly great asset, addition to our community. Thank you, so much, for your valuable contributions!

Now I'm going to completely ignore you and encourage others to do the same, since there is nothing positive about anything you are doing!

ptuomov

What's my agenda? This is a hobby for me.

I have no commercial agenda as far as 928s go. It's would be silly for me to have such an agenda, because there are a lot easier ways to make money for me, given my personal situation.

I simply enjoy discussing technical things. I have paid RL the membership fee to be able to do that here. It's my understanding that this is in fact the purpose of this site. I think that my technical questions and discussion, with all their shortcomings which are many, nevertheless in net are a positive to the forum -- but opinions on this are likely to vary!

I don't currently own S3 32V car. I've owned one in the past, a black automatic.

I am not planning to buy or fabricate N/A headers anytime soon, for myself or others, yet I do enjoy posting on header threads (not just yours.) I think headers are cool and mysterious and I believe I am starting to get a glimpse of what's happening inside the engine that makes headers work or not work.

I thought my questions about how the pulse tuning thru to cats worked or didn't work were meaningful. I accept you don't want to answer that question, it's your prerogative. If it weren't meaningful question, I doubt you'd find it advantageous to keep that information proprietary.

Does this answer the question?

U-928

Jesus chirst are you people adults? Get over yourselves already. Look past it if you don't like what someone's saying.

ptuomov

You are welcome to ignore me, that is also your prerogative.

Before you do that, though, I recommend you ask someone you trust to read this thread thru and give you an objective opinion about whether I've said anything negative about your headers, or any of your other products, in this thread.

Criticism of people's products can be constructive, or meant to disparage or to defame. Ask that person to read this thread thru and tell you whose criticism of other people's products looks like it's meant to be constructive and whose looks like it is meant to disparage or to defame.

DKWalser

Greg - I sympathize with your feelings. It's hard to have people appear to snipe at your hard work. However, you should know that some people need to go through the mental process of tearing something apart to come to an understanding. I'm one of those people. When seeing something new, I mentally disassemble it -- silently asking, "Why did they do it that way? I would have done this, instead." I always assume I've missed something. When I cannot figure out what I may have missed, I ask out-loud: "Why'd you do it that way?" Again, I assume whomever I'm asking will have a good explanation (they usually do) and that I'll learn.

Of course, sometimes the person I'm questioning takes offense. They assume (wrongly, in my case) that I believe I could have done better. Nope. Just wording things awkwardly and just trying to understand. For example, in school I got a 100% on a mid-term exam, but I was unsure about the wording of a couple of the multiple choice questions. So, when the professor went over the exam with the class, I challenged the professor on the answers to those two questions. I made a vigorous defense of why a different answer might also be correct. After much debate, the professor said he'd give me credit for the two questions. When I sheepishly said I didn't need the points, since I had a perfect score on the exam, he asked what I'd been debating him for. I was just trying to learn and believed out of that verbal conflict a spark of understanding would be ignited.

I believe some of the comments made on this thread (and others) about your work are in that vein.

PorKen

After a flurry of edits, here is the progression of the "stab" as of this writing:

Becomes: (bold text added)
Interesting the numbering order of the dyno runs seems to contradict the "early" position.

Those files must include (unathorized) copies of S300s intellectual property, because you can't make that graph with a ST.

It's called the 'Octane Loop' for a reason. However in the "stab" run, it is obvious that the EZF chip is S300s, and the octane loop was disconnected.


What actually happened

Greg, by his own admission, "mistakenly" tried to pass off S300s chips as his own work, hoping to later duplicate or better the results with the ST.
Unfortunately, he will find that that is difficult (if not impossible) to do.

He then, clumsily but colorfully, slandered and besmirched said chips in an attempt to cover his 'crimes'.


Finally, after some initial confusion and clarification, an acknowledgement of what S300s chips can do!

bureau13

To be honest, as an objective observer who doesn't even have a 928 of any vintage (yet!) I think maybe there are two different definitions of "criticize" at play here. It doesn't have to mean bashing. It might be poking into it to test one's own understanding, as much as it is to poke holes in something. As long as it's done respectfully, both parties usually benefit from that exercise.

Not that anyone asked, but that's my opinion. Since the car I have my eyes on right now is in fact an S3, I have a great deal of interest in both the header development and the tuning, be it via Sharktuner or one of Porken's chips. So yeah, everybody kiss and make up so I can have lots of fun stuff to drool over when I get one of these beasts lol...