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A small fee to a US lawyer would have gone a long way. Actually, if you have documentation you might want to consider having a brief consultation with a lawyer located in the same city as the business.
It’s completely irresponsible for a business to not compensate you for the cost of the damages. There is a legal term for it, weasel.
This is what they wrote in a thread regarding damages exactly like yours:
“We had to throw out so much inventory as a result of the corrosive nature of the urethane smoke! All the tools, even those in the tool box with the drawers closed, had and still have a coating of rust on them. We have tried to clean them, and lubed them up, but it’s insidious. Our lathe and mill got it bad. A new telephone in the shop, less than a month old, was destroyed because of the corrosive smoke alone. It wasn’t near the heat, it was just in the same room.
I had to throw out camshaft cores, brake rotors, calipers, used clutches, and all kinds of parts that I’d accumulated in 19 years of 928 work. We filled a steel and metal recycling dumpster.“
Wonder what the two insurance companies decided about the customer’s totaled car... I get the feeling that the business was pursuing the customer’s insurance rather than his own for liability of that car andalso perhaps damages to his own property, but I didn’t read the full thread.
Let's keep the thread centered on the technical side, documenting the shortcomings. Threats of legal action are, um, misplaced here. There are clear paths to settlement, starting with the evidence-gathering and other documentation that's happening here. This thread isn't a witch-burning, especially since SG has repeatedly asked Carl to stay out so the discussion stays focused on that documentation. Others who have had the same problem are welcome to chime in with their experience. The rest of the crowd, especially those carrying torches to "help", use PM to share your advice and enthusiasm please.
That it was up to my Ins to pay for it because he did not have any. Don't forget that I live in Canada and impossible to pursue
This is also not true. We had insurance, although in hindsight I'd be the first to say that we did not have adequate insurance. In no way did we look to the customer's insurance to help pay for the damage we sustained to our building. That's complete B.S. We did ask that our customers make sure their car was insured at time of drop off, as we would be driving them to test the installation when it was complete, for example. So asking the customer to check to see how their comprehensive policy might help them was not an unreasonable suggestion. It's a shame Fred's insurance would not allow a claim in the US. We detailed his car at our expense, and offered him an additional $500. It was a ****-show for everyone, although my insurance made the building good again, I lost tools and spare parts aplenty. The guy who's car started on fire lost his whole car. He had a good policy and his insurance company paid him for the entire car plus a little more for the upgrades that had just been installed. Fred's car was parked just feet away, and sustained corrosive smoke damage. Nobody won.
The decision was made after this event to close the shop to all customer cars. We no longer will allow customer cars in the building for modification or upgrades.
This is also not true. We had insurance, although in hindsight I'd be the first to say that we did not have adequate insurance. In no way did we look to the customer's insurance to help pay for the damage we sustained to our building. That's complete B.S. We did ask that our customers make sure their car was insured at time of drop off, as we would be driving them to test the installation when it was complete, for example. So asking the customer to check to see how their comprehensive policy might help them was not an unreasonable suggestion. It's a shame Fred's insurance would not allow a claim in the US. We detailed his car at our expense, and offered him an additional $500. It was a ****-show for everyone, although my insurance made the building good again, I lost tools and spare parts aplenty. The guy who's car started on fire lost his whole car. He had a good policy and his insurance company paid him for the entire car plus a little more for the upgrades that had just been installed. Fred's car was parked just feet away, and sustained corrosive smoke damage. Nobody won.
The decision was made after this event to close the shop to all customer cars. We no longer will allow customer cars in the building for modification or upgrades.
This is also not true. We had insurance, although in hindsight I'd be the first to say that we did not have adequate insurance. In no way did we look to the customer's insurance to help pay for the damage we sustained to our building. That's complete B.S. We did ask that our customers make sure their car was insured at time of drop off, as we would be driving them to test the installation when it was complete, for example. So asking the customer to check to see how their comprehensive policy might help them was not an unreasonable suggestion. It's a shame Fred's insurance would not allow a claim in the US. We detailed his car at our expense, and offered him an additional $500. It was a ****-show for everyone, although my insurance made the building good again, I lost tools and spare parts aplenty. The guy who's car started on fire lost his whole car. He had a good policy and his insurance company paid him for the entire car plus a little more for the upgrades that had just been installed. Fred's car was parked just feet away, and sustained corrosive smoke damage. Nobody won.
The decision was made after this event to close the shop to all customer cars. We no longer will allow customer cars in the building for modification or upgrades.
Sorry Carl but now you're spreading misinformation.
The cost to professionally clean my car by Serv Pro was $2000 and when I asked you to split the cost you agreed to only provide $500 with me footing the bill for
$1500 for your mistake of not having Insurance to cover client's cars.
Yes, you did not have such insurance or was lying to me .
I'm done or as they say, I'm out.
Last edited by Koenig-Specials 928; 05-18-2020 at 09:44 PM.
928sg.......I am really sorry that your very nice build thread has come to this. I wont post anymore unless related to your install. Hopefully there is another thread started in the 928 forum to discuss the injustice form 928 Motorsports.
Cheers
This should be 100% on topic: I inherited my kit, the previous owner paid to have it installed. The car has about 1500-2000 miles added since installed and I’ve put most of those on the car. The rear bearing enclosed inside of a sealed bell housing has two dents in the seal and it failed. The TT, I now know because of this thread, is missing 2 o rings and a slinger/bearing shield. The TT was full of aluminum shavings.
The communication with 928 MS has been frustrating at best...and I’m not going through a “he said she said”...but I didn’t consider this a “warranty” issue because I didn’t buy it from them. All I wanted was advice on their custom product...which I asked for and was told to call or write, which I did. Calls and requests for calls were never answered or returned. A frustrating email chain ensued and it was obvious to me Carl wasn’t really interested in spending time answering questions Or putting much thoughtfulness in the responses. IMHO a 10 minute call would have answered my questions.
I did have their manual and was put in contact with Sterling by another member. Between Sterlings help and the manual gaps he filled in, I removed the TT.
At first look there was no obvious to me...part of what I wanted to discuss with 928MS....damage or issue with the TT. I tried 928MS again for “what next” look for other issues on parts they installed like the clutch, etc..via email (the only way I could get feedback) and Carl did say at one point I could send the shaft back in (no mention of warranty and I never would have expected that)...and after seeing how the kit was installed and what it takes to rebuild a TT it’s impractical and needlessly expensive for me to send in something (at this point) I wasn’t sure was broken and taking the car to WI from TN is impractical. Regardless of what was wrong, nothing in this kit can’t be serviced by me or a transmission shop (if the transaxle was bad). Claims of “science” or lack of proof because 928ms hasn’t personally found these issues aren’t practical or possible for most, even it would be ideal.
I took everything out, clutch pack, TOB removed and inspected. I’d only spun the TT shaft by hand..so when the Giant Snap Ring pliers I needed arrived this is was what I found
If you look at 10. & 12 o’clock you can see the damage. 4 others had the same/similar damage.
Here are my issues and observations from the install.
Customer service is a large point of the manual and the 928MS Website... “call if you have questions”. I’ve had calls on other issues, but they’ve been short, terse, and unhelpful. My emails were responded to, but they were usually the same.
The kit was installed by 928 MS and had not been touched by anyone else until this issue and had only been driven 1500-2000 miles.
the rear bearing damage caused a failure and had to have been an install error. It’s happened multiple times with others who’ve contributed here. The maker has admitted it was his responsibility and that the QC process was being changed. None of us have colluded to create these damaged bearings...it’s a pattern and people need to know what to check (which is why I’m here and contacted the designer) because these boutique/rare low production mods don’t really have an instruction/WSM. We need threads like these.
My kit was full of metal shavings as was everyone else’s on the thread. Another admission by the maker and change to insure this was remedies going forward.
Because of this thread I’ve found the TT was missing 2 o rings and a slinger. “The parts are rebuilt after being shortened” and these missing parts didn’t cause this specific failure, but if I had sent the TT in I do not have faith that these deficiencies would have been fixed if I had not personally investigated it and the members of this thread had not shared their experiences. They weren’t when they were installed.
I don’t want 928MS to touch my car at this point. The parts they manufactured, so far, are not the issue, but the install quality and failure to follow standard/WSM procedure, Lack of common Courtesy and commonsense is my concern. Examples WSM not being followed or common sense thingS anyone with basic mechanical Understanding knows : there was no lubrication on the short shaft, Missing thread locker on key fasteners, anti-seize missing from others. The most egregious example: I found a coolant drip shortly after buying the car. What I found was when the transmission lines were removed from the radiator 928MS simply stuffed “ paper towels” In the empty holes. It may be a small thing, but this is an expensive kit and install, these details matter.
Bottom line: this thread is supremely useful. It’s imperative for those of us who’ve bought or future people that may inherit these kits. I don’t allow many people to touch this car because I own it for the purpose of learning it and doing it myself. Frankly, after the responses and what I’ve witnessed of the work done, I never asked and don’t want 928MS to “fix” anything else on this car. I chimed in to ask for advice and direction. Since I’m not the original purchaser, again, Carl doesn’t owe me anything. I’ll fix it and straighten up the other issues to my satisfaction, but those who depend on the mechanics and suppliers in this forum/community should know what others experiences are even when those experiences are uncomfortable. This isn’t an anomaly or a “one off” problem...it’s a pattern. I’m glad there has been changes suggested and plans to avoid these issues going forward by 928MS, but would that have happened without this thread? I don’t think so.
And lastly, the maker of this kit has not been the person to figure out the problems and solutions (and everyone here has been in contact with him outside of this thread/forum), the forum users have.
Paying tribute to Lance with a shot of a shiny clean driveshaft & a shoe in the background. Bolts didn’t have any loctite or torqued to the proper settings. Problem solved. Mirror clean torque tube. Supplied Hardware on the left with the wrench (not supplied) required to install. Almost impossible to access or check the bolts in the car. Revised hardware and the tool used to install.
Last edited by Bigfoot928; 05-10-2020 at 01:04 AM.
This series of pics show the range of the brackets. The location pin hole is in the brackets as supplied, and there is no way you can get a drill in between these 2 brackets to used them as a way to drill the holes needed in the tabs on the trans case. You can only drill the holes from the front side of the trans for the front bracket and from the rear with the rear bracket. There was a scribe on the rear bracket telling you where you need to drill the hole but it was wrong and you couldn't even see the scribe with the bracket installed. Lower range of the front drivers side bracket Upper range of the front drivers side bracket. Lots of margin for error. Cut out clearance so I could access the main bolt for the rear bracket. Se how close the bushing is? Not having access to this prevents getting the brackets in the right place with the transmission in the car. The vendor keeps saying the fins on the Diff need to be level. Without access to this bolt you can't do anything about it if the fins aren't level . Without this access and changing the hardware it is impossible to get the brackets lined up in the car forcing you to remove and reinstall the trans every time you want to try and get the brackets lined up. This was one of the 1st mods I made. If the allen hardware is used and the locating pin holes were not made in the brackets, along with this groove cut in the front bracket the trans installation would be 100 times easier & be a one and done install. Another reason I changed the hardware to the Allen head bolts. The bushing on the right actually was up against the bolt head supplied with the kit, so even if you could get to it, you couldn’t get a socket on it because the bushing was up against the bolt head.
Last edited by Bigfoot928; 05-09-2020 at 11:00 PM.
Really nice write up and pictures.......you are bringing back my memory on some of the difficulties I experienced as well. Keep up the good work, you will have a very nice install and you are helping everyone previous and future, since things never change from you know who
Carl also recommends leaving out the foam shifter surround. I’m using it as I don’t think it is wise to allow an easy path of exhaust fumes into the cabin. The 928 is so well sealed everywhere else, and then there is the known issue of pulling heat up through the console when driving with the windows down, and that causes the console to warp.
not to mention, dying of carbon monoxide poisoning isn’t part of my plan.
Last edited by Bigfoot928; 05-10-2020 at 10:00 PM.
05-08-2020, 12:43 PM
