Jim Chambers

I have read many of the threads on replacement of the front shift cup.
However, after dropping the exhaust I am unable to remove my very loose, sloppy cup, never mind what I thought was the hard part, installing the new one.
My cup hits the body tunnel before I can get it more than half way off the ball. Anyone have a solution short of removing the torque tube?

jwillman

Jim,

I dealt with this same issue on mine when I first got the car. The old cup had mostly disintegrated but there was still bits deep inside the socket.

Disconnect the shifter linkage inside the car from the front rod understanding that compressing the springs to get it back together is a pain the A--. That gives a bit more movement on the front rod and allows it to rotate to the side more and clear the ball.

You can insert the new cup bushing into the cup, position the pushing at an angle on the side of the ball and then put a ratchet type cargo strap on the top and around the TT with a 4x4 at the bottom for the ratchet crank to ride on and crank it down. The bushing will snap down on the ball but as I found out this last Christmas (5 years after) when I did my torque tube the bushing was not properly inserted in the cup meaning the rod still rode up off the bushing. It did not come off completely because I had a tie wrap loosely around the tube and as you are experiencing there clearance for it to come off is vert tight.

The bushing has a lip that when inserted properly goes under a lip on the ball cup. I see no way of ensuring that happens doing this job with the TT in the car.

Use a tie wrap to ensure the rod cup does not ride up and off the bushing and your shifting will be far more predictable.

Jim Chambers

Thank you Jim. I am installing a complete new unit so I just have to unscrew the old (counting turns) and screw on the new. I have put things back together for now to drive the car, but next try will include disconnecting at the shift lever.

Mark R.

Are your motor mounts new? That can sometimes cause the tube to sit up higher.
When I did mine, my mounts were old and collapsed, so there was lots of space to maneuver.
I had no problem prying the old one off and I used the ratchet strap method to pop the new one on.
My new one was the complete assembly (a new cup with the nylon insert already installed).
So I did not encounter the problem described above...

During that same effort, I also replaced the rear coupler bushing.
Between those two things, the shift feel improvement was significant!

Jim Chambers

Thanks Mark. My mounts are likely original so things are as low as they will go.

dr bob

Mark--

Jim's car is a '78 so doesn't have the same saggy-engine syndrome that our later cars often do.

Mark R.

Ah, good point... So he somehow needs to create some additional clearance.

Could he possibly loosen the bolts on the front cross member, lowering it slightly to give a little more clearance..?

Dave928S

The later front shift rod goes through a bush, which is mounted on the TT (like my 82), which makes it difficult to get a lot of movement, even with the shifter disconnected.

The early cars have that mounted on the transmission tunnel. I haven't seen the exact mounting point, but if that can be dismounted from the tunnel, then it may be easier/easy to get the front shaft out totally once it's decoupled from the shifter. The major issue will be the foam, which may hinder removal, or make it impossible. Even if you can't get it out totally, I believe disconnection should allow a lot more movement. HTH

Here's the PET image ... item 4 .. which front rod (3) goes through.

Rob Edwards

Dave's got it- the '78 front shift rod goes through the shifter bearing bracket, which has 2 M6 studs that protrude through transmission tunnel sheet metal. If you remove the shift boot and the rubber bellows, you should be able to undo the bearing bracket from the body. Be forewarned, it's a PITA to get it back into place with the Torque tube in place. P

GregBBRD

Im thinking that people are giving the OP generic ball socket advice that applies to slightly later cars.

The '78/'79 cars have less room between the chassis and the torque tube, making getting the ball socket off of the ball on the torque tube really difficult....even when the plastic is completely gone.

Completely different animal....

With worn mounts, you can generally rotate the ball socket to the side and get it off. This will require force to accomplish.....like a giant pry bar, lifting and rotating the lip on the ball socket.

People sell a replacement plastic insert for the ball socket, but what they sell is actually the clutch T/O arm bushing....which fits like crap and is a really tough road, on an early car.

If you buy the correct part (which the OP has done), you can generally "roll" (again, requires brute force) the new ball socket into place.

That ubsurdly priced bushing that the front shift rod runs through, just in front of the gearshifter, is generally very hard and may break with minor lateral movement of the front....so keep that movement to an absolute bare minimum.

If you break that bushing (or it is already broken) taking out the torque tube will save hours of frustration.

Rob Edwards

LOL, didn't realize the clearances were different. I've replaced 3 or 4 ball cup bushings, but it was always with the torque tube sitting in my driveway. Always plenty of clearance...

Dave928S

^^ Neither did I ... there's not the same degree of difficulty Greg refers to on the later cars. Reading the OP's first post again clearly refers to that lack of clearance. Now I'm curious as to what changed with the later cars ... relative position of drive train to body, or shape of floor/tunnel, and was that change as a response to the recognition of this very issue ??

Mrmerlin

NOTE these instructions are for later cars.
BUT I think this will also work for the early cars as well.
It might seem fiddly but in the long run its the fastest way to fit the new parts

I have now installed 2 of the 928 motorsports life time metal front ball cup units by removing the bell housing.

To drop the clutch out, see suggested procedure below.
then remove the 2 trans mount bolts,
NOTE I suggest that the following procedure is used to remove the clutch,

Loosen the bellhousing bolts till two turns loose to facilitate clutch removal,

NOTE you did loosen the bell housing / block bolts till two turns out,
so the bell could slide back on the bolts to negate the need to be hammering on the alignment dowels and thus onto the thrust bearing.

Remove the bolts to the Bell/TT then the bell housing/block bolts and remove the bell housing.
the TT should rest on the front crossmember or support it with a jack,
A crowsfoot 11/16 or 17mm will be needed to install the locknuts.

NOTE now is also a good time to mock up the correct depth of the stub shaft to the pilot bearing.
fit the bell to the TT and bolt it together.
then fit the block bell bolts and tighten them.
fit the guide tube and the stub shaft into the pilot bearing,
install the guide tube bolts,
put the stub shaft into the pilot bearing,
then pull it out so its centered into the pilot bearing.
use a marker and put a line on the rear side of the stub shaft behind the guide tube.
then fit the drive shaft connector clamp.
With the line you made verify that the driveshaft cutouts are centered in both bolt holes.
Remove the guide tube and stub ,
and loosen the Bell bolts till two turns loose.

Slide back the TT/ trans assembly,
install the clutch, hook the release arm onto the new release arm bushing,
then install the clutch bolts.
tighten the bell housing bolts,
then install the trans mount bolts. and the lower bell housing.

NOTE now is also a great time to fit your Greg Brown flex line to the slave cylinder this remove the funky flex/hardline assembly

One final NOTE make sure that the rear pinch bolt at the trans axle has also been inspected and the shaft is centered in its groove before installing the clutch.

Jim Chambers

Thanks all. Greg/Stan, seems you are both saying remove the TT.
Stan, I am somewhat confused regarding mention of the clutch, measuring stub shaft/pilot fit, etc.

Several years ago I removed the TT from a '90 GT. I did not remove the clutch as I recall. Simply removed lower bell housing, 4 TT/bell housing bolts, two bolts at trans mount and pried drive train to the rear. Unbolt at the trans and it was out (purpose was to replace TT bearings).

Is my '78 different such that clutch must be removed?

Mrmerlin

usually when your fixing the front shifter cup its also time for clutch repairs so its very easy to remove the bell housing with the clututch out of the way

Please NOTE I am not suggesting removing the Torque tube in any of the provided directions.

Then only parts you remove are the lower bell housing along with the starter for the early cars,
then the upper bell housing,

NOTE once the bell housing is out of the way then access to the shifter cup is greatly increased.

Presetting the stub shaft depth makes it easy when fitting the clutch assembly as all thats necessary is to line up your mark to the back of the guide tube .

What you dont want to happen is for the stub shaft to be preloaded into the pilot bearing this can damage the pilot bearing and or thrust bearing.

One final NOTE make sure that the rear pinch bolt at the trans axle has also been inspected and the shaft is centered in its groove before installing the clutch.