calebPH

Well whoever is still reading this… an unfortunate ending to my epic tale… Took it to a shop. They got it running in an hour. It ran for 30 seconds, made a weird air hissing noise they had never heard before and then the engine seized up. She’s dead now. Had a really fun 12 hours with my first Porsche, then a very miserable 3-4 months after. Guess I gotta figure something else out now… Previous owner offered me an engine they were working on for free, but mechanic said I’m looking at $5k-$6k to make sure everything on it is functional and to get it in. Thought about trying an LS swap, because whatever, but also know pretty much nothing about that process, so I’m sure that would be crazy expensive. It was nice while it lasted, folks! Thanks for the help…

walfreyydo

Doesnt make sense to me. Did the shop explain why or how the engine seized up?

Only possible causes I can think of:
1) Hydrolock
2) Timing belt broke
3) Lack of oil (takes more than 30 secs)
4) possibly - starter gear not retracting effectively locking the flywheel

Can you still turn the engine over by hand with a breaker bar on the crank pulley? If you can, then your engine is not seized up...

calebPH

They didn’t go into a ton of detail over the phone. Not getting it back until tomorrow, but it did lock up on me a few times, so I’m wondering if that’s what happened to them. I would have to throw it in 5th and rock the car back and forth to kind of shake things loose before I could crank it by hand.

walfreyydo

There is nothing to "shake loose"​​​​​. If its truly "locked" it doesnt become unlocked by rocking the car in 5th. That is what is so bizzare to me about your description. The only way that could occur is either the starter gear not retracting, or some foreign object mechanically binding (a bolt dropped into the bellhousing/compression chamber perhaps) and then freeing itself. I cant figure out if this is the issue or if you are just confused on believing that the "engine is locked".

Also keep in mind that the engine compression can make the engine difficult to turn by hand, which I suspect you may be fooled by. Best to remove the spark plugs and then rotate by hand. It should turn fairly smoothly and easily. If it does bind or not rotate, a borescope (small camera) down into each spark plug hole can tell you what the issue is (valve hitting piston, or some other foreign object). Also taking a peak at the timing belt (is it broken/missing?) can reveal a lot of clues - the timing belt cover is pretty easy to remove.

You should absolutely find out from the shop what specifically the issue is-why they say its frozen, what specifically broke. If they cannot tell you then you should find a different shop...

Im sorry for your situation but I am still hoping that the engine is still ok and this is just a misdiagnosis.

T&T Racing

I went back to the post and there was indication that the engine possibly overheated. Then the engine did not start for many weeks.
I want to build on @walfreyydo comments. The engine failure diagnosed by the repair shop is suspect. I would lean toward a hydrolock of the engine, ie heat gasket blown letting coolant into a cylinder to fill the cylinder. Try to crank the engine, the cylinder with the coolant has both valves closed and we all know, liquid cannot be compressed. My race car engine had a head gasket blow after I stopped the engine. I returned the next day to start the engine and there was just this klunk and starter stalled.

Get the car back in your hands. Remove the spark plugs and see if the engine rotates by turning the crankshaft bolt. If so, you can see if coolant is ejecting. If it turns but stops at a particular point, then maybe valve in reference. If so remove the front cover of the timing belt housing. See if the timing belt is broken. If it is, then probably bent valves.
Remove the cylinder head and inspect the cylinders. See what it looks like and post photo's. It is easy to rebuilt the cylinder head. Michael Mount at michaelmount123@gmail.com is top notch to refresh the head.


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calebPH

Here's a video I just shot of what's going on. Sorry for the terrible shooting, it's been a long day hahaha...
Basically, just rolled the car off the tow truck and immediately tried turning the crankshaft. Stuck. Assuming that's as far as the mechanic got when they gave up on it. No one was available for me to talk to more in-depth about what went wrong with it, but I'm pretty certain that was it. Rocked it back and forth, and suddenly, like magic, everything is spinning (I didn't take spark plugs out yet because I was in a rush to get somewhere else and had to just try this before I left it sitting again). I know the "locking" doesn't make total sense, but that's what I'm trying to show in this video. Probably using the wrong words to describe it "locking up"-- I do generally get how engines tend to work, just never encountered this specific thing, which seems extremely odd to me... After making sure the crankshaft was turning, tried starting it with the key and got the biggest starting sound I've gotten yet. Shook the engine. After trying to find the source of why it's shaking (which I am starting to think could be the cylinder head or timing belt, and I'll definitely be inspecting those hopefully this weekend), it went right back to the single clicking sound. Then, I had to throw in the towel for the day. Definitely happy it's not seized! Sent me spiraling for a few days trying to figure out what to do with it haha

austin944

Sounds like this:


I think there's metal bits rolling around inside the engine. Those bits seize the engine, and then when the engine is freed by turning it over by hand, it's able to generate more metal bits when you crank the engine over, and those new bits cause the engine to lock again.

calebPH

Long time, no update! Been swamped with work stuff the last month, so haven't gotten around to taking the head off yet. That's on the docket for the next weekend or so though. I did try something last week, however. Some of you might come at me for it, but whatever-- had to try it. Marvel Mystery Oil. Poured some in the cylinders and let it sit for 48 hours. Went to turn the crankshaft and it turned great in every gear. Tried starting the car and it was giving a strong cranking sound. Never did start, but far from the single click I was getting. Kept sounding like at any second it'd start, so I kept trying. At a certain point, the engine started shaking pretty hard. After probably 5 minutes of trying to crank it (for research purposes), everything locked up again and we were back to the single click. The previous owner of the car told me he's got a spare cylinder head laying around he'd give me (he offered me a whole engine, but it's in a state of disrepair and I don't have space to store it in my apartment's garage haha), so I kind of think I'm gonna take the head off today and see if maybe switching that out could help something.

austin944

I wouldn't throw parts at the car. At least drain the oil and see if you can find any metal shavings to confirm a seized engine. You want to figure out what's wrong first before spending any more money.

If you are tired of the car, you could sell it and use the proceeds to buy a running car. Here's a Rennlister looking for a project, you can at least ask him if he's interested in making an offer and for how much.

walfreyydo

You should really try turning the engine by hand from below with the car jacked up (remove the fan shrouds if need be). There is no room from above to get enough movement on your breaker bar and since you have the spark plugs still in, the "compression" of the engine could make it feel like its stuck.

Secondly, removing the spark plugs (all of them) will remove that compression feeling and really help you understand if the engine is getting stuck. With the spark plugs removed, the engine should turn smoothly and easily with no restrictions.

Try turning it by hand again but with the plugs removed and from below.

Also - in the video where the starter just clicks - still could be a bad starter (these tend to fail intermittently)

calebPH

MAJOR UPDATE: Finally had some time to really work on the 944 this week, and this time, I'm determined to make it run. The first step was draining oil (which I should've done 4 months ago, but didn't have a place to do that up until now, finally found a garage I can keep it in/work on it free of neighbors calling the cops on me and getting tickets for parking it on my street smh), lo and behold... oil/coolant milkshake, exactly as I had come to expect. I took the head off the block only to find a head gasket that probably hasn't been changed in 20 years.Cam shaft gasket also just completely eroded. Assuming the gasket wasn't in great shape, and me overheating it once really just blew it out. Working now to get everything cleaned up super well. The pistons and sleeves appear to be in rather good condition, actually. Don't see anything that would cause any problems on that end. No metal bits came out in the oil either, so kinda hoping I got lucky there with a super blown head gasket. The head itself is in okay condition, too. One of the valves had a chunk broken out of it that I'm almost 90% sure has been the cause of the engine getting "stuck", waiting until I can get my hands on a spring tensioner to pull all of those out and see what I've got to replace on that front. I've also got a whole new head and camshaft that the previous owner gave me, if it turns out this one is somehow totally destroyed, but I don't think that's going to be the case. Finally feeling very optimistic about this surprise project car. Gotta wait until I get paid next week to really knock this out. Gonna have to flush the oil system a few times to try to get rid of the milkshake as much as I possibly can. Feeling like this thing is gonna finally start soon though.

walfreyydo

I would get the valve seats re-cut, new guides and valve seals as well as getting the head checked for flatness, especially after an overheating episode. The oil/coolant mix can also be caused by a bad oil cooler housing seal, so not necessarily a head gasket (although you said it overheated if I remember), or possibly a combination of both.

T&T Racing

Best head guy is Michael Mount at michaelmount123@gmail.com

calebPH

I'll definitely keep Michael in mind in the future. I actually got an extra head and camshaft/housing from the previous owner who felt bad about selling me the car that's in pretty great condition, so will probably just swap the heads entirely to move this process along a bit! Maybe get the other one redone for a spare later.

calebPH

Just kidding about all this. Upon further inspection of the cylinders and pistons (honestly don't know how I missed it), 2 and 3 are totally ruined. No way this block will run and think it's too bad to be sleeved or whatever lmao
Gonna hit the previous owner up and see if he's got the rest of the other engine I can have and I suppose make arrangements to get that. At the least, if the other engine is somehow in worse condition, pulling the short block and 2 pistons to replace this, but hopefully I can just swap the engines out entirely. This is not good news, regardless. Thought I'd be cruising through the mountains by next weekend, but still have a long way to go.