allstar_02

This is something that just came to during a conversation with a friend. What if anything would happen if you filled your tires with Helium. The advantage to that would be lightening the car. Does Helium expand similar to air. And would it help with a 0-60 time. has anyone ever tried it. I was just curious

IceShark

You better make sure you tie your car down if you try this experiment as it may float away.

Jfrahm

I doubt you could measure the difference in weight, and the helium would leak out much more easily.

-Joel

J Chen

Hah ICESHARK,
That's a funny one. Joke aside,
even if it does not leak there
might be a danger of blowing the
tires ??????

Jfrahm

helium <> hydrogen. It's not flammable. Hydrogen would be very difficult to keep in the tire, it'd leak out fast. H2 is a very small molecule.

As far as blowing up the tires goes, It used to be that fix-a-flat was charged with propane, so tires reinflated with cans of fix-a-flat were full of a fuel/air mixture. It was not a problem unless the guy dismounting the tire was lighting a cigarette at the same time.

-Joel.

IceShark

But hydrogen would be a molecule and would be larger than He which usually doesn't form He2 so He would be the hardest to keep contained in the tire.

As far as Chen wondering about blowing up a tire filled with He, I don't know if he is talking about flammability which wouldn't be a problem as its a noble gas. But it does expand very rapidly as temperature rises. I have no idea if it would reach enough pressure at tire operating temperatures to do the trick, I would tend to doubt it on a tire in good shape.

Hans

Ice: don't think the pressure rise will that big that the tire blows.
Normal air contains moisture, that will move from the liquid phase to vapour and increases its volume by app 600%. Now that will give a substantial increase in pressure.
That is also the reason why these fast moving F1 racers fill their tires with Nitrogen 4.9 (dry as a bone). I bet they do the same in US.
TakeCare

adrian_jaye

Helium, is an atom, just as Hydrogen is,

Helium is heavier than Hydrogen, as it's position in the pereodic table is 2 and Hydrogen is 1

IceShark

So what? You need to bone up on molecules, atoms and the elements.

A monoatomic element has one atom per molecule; a diatomic element has two atoms per molecule. He is usually monoatomic. H is usually diatomic. The two H atoms are going to have a larger dimension than the one He so on average it is going to be more difficult for an H2 molecule to go ziping through the tire, valve, rim seal, and rim without running into something and bouncing back. Get it?

inactiveuser92616

I think the biggest problem would be kids letting the air out of your tires so they can sound like mickey mouse

erics944

This past sunday there was a LeMans race on tv and they had a segment on tires. They put either heleium or Nitrogen in their tires because it is dryer and easier to control the pressure when the the tires warm up. I thought it was heleium, but someone just mentioned that F1 uses Nitrogen because it is dryer, so I am not sure. I know they don't use regular air though.

Hans

The cylinders are green, thus Nitrogen.
The helium molecule is smaller, so the chance that pressure is lost during the race is bigger. Lower pressure heats up the tire and destructs it
The results can be dramatic: F1 USA 2004: 2 cars crasched because of blown rear tires. 1 driver walks away, the other will be hospitalised for the next weeks and will not race during the rest of the season
TakeCare

IceShark

Hans, you can't trust the color of the cylinder to figure out what gas is in there. I don't know what the gas guys do but it is very haphazard. I do a lot of diving and usually hang a tank of O2 12 feet down off the boat with a regulator on it for someone that F****d up and is in the bends. While we figure out how to get him to a chamber. The tanks of O2 I use are usually green. But I also have an orange one here.

It is so haphazard, but critical, that I put all my new cylinders on the cutting torch and test. There is no missing O2 when you pull the trigger to cut.

Hans

Yea Shark, I know. There is not too much standardized with these cylinder guys.
But fortunately Le Mans is Europe, and for the elementary standard industrial gasses (argon / oxygen/ acetylene/hydrogen/nitrogen) they even managed to get the thread in the cylinders identical between the various suppliers all over Europe.

Please note that this is a major achievement since every individual country in Europe has its own regulations and directives. That, plus some nationalistic feelings and private market protection illusions, basically blocks every progress in this.

The color of the cylinders says nothing about the grade though.
Cylinders for diving is a different game here altogether. They are considered "specialty gasses", are mostly privately owned and re-filled. They can have any color you want.
TakeCare

meanmaroon951

Nitrogen are used b/c the pressure dont change w/ heat inert gas , the nitrogen is also used in the pnuematic valve springs