toddk911

How does a chip add SO much more performance??? I thought chips for our cars added a lot, but for the S4 it is almost 100 tq gain.

Mledbetter

The S4 is really detuned from Audi. A chip adds about 4-5psi of boost and changes the timing.


-Matt

stoked944

is it just me, or has anyone else heard about all the reliability issues of the s4's? i've read so many times that when modded they are very unreliable. maybe thats why the new s4's have a v8 instead of a the biturbo system. plus, we're comparing a new car with new technology, to a 15 year old car. thats a big part of the reason the 951 is unreliable sometimes, but as for the s4 i don't know.

bdellis

The S4 weighs between 3700 and 3800 lbs. Pretty heavy.

3 Turbos

The only reliable car that I have owned and know of is a Honda and it was close to perfect.

Every car has it's weak points. Some more than others, and how each driver/owner takes care of it or abuses it.

If you drag race and constantly drop the clutch at 5K to 6K then something is going to break on either car.

That said, yes an old car is at a disadvantage as far as reliabilty is concerned to a newer one. If that is true, then I would from a reliablity stand point pick a S4 over a 951 for a daily driver

I think the original poster was asking about which to use as a more reliable daily driver.

Besides the fact, that they are totaly different cars. Both are fun to drive!

Joe Anstett

The "TT" stands for something other than Twin Turbo. <something> Touring....

Robby

Based on the straightline discussion, I have to chime in here- the S4 is as fast, if not faster than a Turbo S stock vs stock in a straightline & that is pretty much all the way up- the Turbo S SHOULD top out a few mph faster & THAT is the reason why it would EVENTUALLY outrun the S4- the prob we're having here is, that all of our 951's are so old, that they are all in various stages of tune- the S4's are getting that way, but only slightly- the Turbo S runs the 1/4 in 14.2 @ 101 & the Audi is right there w/it- the 6-sp ranges from 14.0 - 14.2 & 99 - 102 range- The BEST a Turbo S EVER did when new (in magazine tests w/professional driver, etc) was a 14.2, EXCEPT for the 13.9 managed in C@D & THAT was w/shorter FD- I believe it was a 3.78 vs stock 3.38 which limited topp speed to ~145 vs 167 normal stock gearing... Anyway, the 0-120 times are pretty close & THAT is w/the SHORT gearing- THAT Turbo S ran 0-120 in ~22.0 vs the S4, which is always ~22.0 flat- chip the S4 & the 951 S BOTH & the S4 will walk all OVER it in straightline- VERY FEW 951s can run the 1/4 in <13.0- one of the 1st S4's tested in EC w/chips (Neuspeed) ran a 13.0- that will outrun M5's... The sky's the limit from there, w/BOTH cars, but, as several have said, they're just different cars... Anyway, many people like to comment on 951's being faster from rolling starts, etc- they stack up right where they are supposed to for their HP:weight vs their gearing, etc- they don't magically get faster in the higher #'s- ALL cars get slower as speeds increase- the ONLY advantage a 951 has in upper ranges (>130) is that short 5th they have. stacked on top of their 4th.... No biggie, but check times for other cars in the 14.0 - 14.5 range, like E36 M3's- they accelerate just as fast in the upper ranges as 951s & ALL of these cars are faster 0-60 than 5-60- the launch is better than a slow roll-on ALWAYS b/c the spinning tires keep the engine from bogging ever-so-slightly, thereby helping their times....

In any event, it all comes down to personal preference & specific use of the car in question.... BOTH can be INCREDIBLE cars & BOTH can be NIGHTMARES to own....

Danno

"I have one of each. 951 great track car, tiresome day in and day out. s4 great day in and day out car, not build for track duty. Warps rotors, blows turbos and eats transmissions."

Two videos from Sears Point:

Porsche951vsAudiS4.avi (6.5mb) - me vs. AudiS4
Porsche951vs928S4.avi (16.4mb) - me vs. 928S4
may require DiVX codec.

'nuff said...

v944god

AWESOME! WOOO WOOO

Robby

nice music Danno.... What happened to the Audi anyway? It looked like it had a blow-out or something w/all the smoke pouring out from underneath.... Also, I was comparing mostly stock vs mostly stock & assuming mostly equal drivers- YOU can run a full 5 seconds quicker in YOUR modded 951 than a pro could run in a stock Turbo S at Willow springs- they lapped WS in 1:41 back in late '80's- even a stock '89 911 Turbo could only run 1:43... I'd love to know about a chipped Audi S4 &/or some of the 928s esepecially GTS.... Cool videos....

Also- several people have asked about the S4's- they DO weigh a good bit more- the test weight of a 944 Turbo S is ~3150 while the S4's is ~3650- that's a solid 500lbs... The TQ gain by the chips is also much higher than that of the HP- I have no idea why though, I just know it happens- I have also seen several stock S4's dyno close to 250TQ (@ the WHEELS) while their HP was under 200- not sure why either- they may have had some tuning probs from the factory for a short period, but, you wouldn't know it from any of the ones I'VE been in... Their biggest set-back, IMO, is their weight & WHERE it is (over the front wheels- 60/40)... As for switching to the V8, I'm not sure that was the best idea OR why they did it even- the V6 did pretty well, although I HAVE heard of some issues- the V8 hasn't been getting the best reviews compared to the V6TT in road tests, although it's STILL been beating everything else in it's class that I've seen- it's supposed to be much louder, for instance- not sure about it's modability, but, a chipped V6TT will blow a stock V8 away- some people, however, have said that tuning the V8 might prove to be pretty rewarding as well- we'll see....

rhesus

white smoke... ouch!

blitz951

`I have a friend with an S4 and it started out with a chip that was supposed to put it over 300HP and while it is a nice car it just didn't feel that fast to me and this car was at 20psi. This same guy had a 951 with a K27/8, exhaust and an MAF and at the same boost the 951 would destroy the S4. He has now changed the turbo's to the K04's, has a $2000 exhaust, etc... and on race gas it is supposed to put out 400+ HP. It is much faster now but this is after thousands of dollars and lots of work because on those cars you have to take of the front part of the car and drop the engine to get to the turbo's.
His brother has a 951 with a cam, serious head work, K27/8 and Carrillo rods and to make a long story short the 951 is significantly faster. This is with both cars at around 20 psi.
Lastly, this same guy informed me that there was a shootout with all the big tuner's comparing their modified S4's and from what I was told they had a tough time breaking into the 12's despite all the mods. I guess this will be in the next Eurpean Car magazine.

3 Turbos

stick a lot of cash into either one and they both will be fast race or street

make the weather somewhat other than perfect and dry - I would give the edge to the S4 - and if its raining - I know you would want an S4 with AWD

need to carry 4 people in comfort or to use as a daily driver - I would give the edge to the S4

hey, they ARE 2 different cars - the S4 is a 4 door sedan that runs as well as some sports cars

Danno

"What happened to the Audi anyway?"

Nothing, he just ran over the oil pick-up stuff they laid down to mop up a blown engine (spun #2 rod-bearing) by this guy:



You can read all about him on Doug Hayashi's NSX-Files website, specifically the Chapter 83 - S2000 Challenge-Sears section.

CanyonBlaster

To me, this is just a cool thread. Reminds me I'm not crazy, and not the only guy who can only drive german cars. I am having an absolute blast driving the 951, and also, I enjoy romping up to the slopes in the quattro to ski.

I really want an RS2. I need to buy lotto tix or something. I would get a hold of one of those porsche /wagon/quattro/beasts and tweak it till it stung.



My Avant in summer running gear.