Back after a Long break
05-14-2020, 05:11 PM
#61
Quit Smokin'
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Auto_Werks, totally understand and get your point regarding the harness. However, you or others keep saying the harness is terminated, but is it fully terminated or just a generic length harness with ECU couplers already terminated? There is a BIG difference there. If it is not actually terminated then I think it's a bit unfair to anybody listening to make it sound like the harness won't need a lot of work and a decent amount of money to fully terminate. The ECU couplers are the easy part... If you're going to use Deutsch connectors (DTM or autosport) to terminate each end and use a high quality insulation like DR-25 price is going to get high really quick. Which to be honest with you I think it would be a poor decision not to, at a minimum use DR-25, especially with the high underhood temps our cars have.
I agree though, a harness doesn't build itself, and is not something avoid considering. I'd rather start with new materials than try to revive a 30 year old harness though.
05-14-2020, 05:17 PM
#62
I don't actually know, but my assumption was that you get the materials to make the harness, and you need to build it to suit. Someone who has considered buying one more carefully than I have might have better insight. I think what will end up happening is I will regret not buying with the group buy when everyone gets them going, and by the time I would be ready to pull the trigger they will seem expensive.
I agree though, a harness doesn't build itself, and is not something avoid considering. I'd rather start with new materials than try to revive a 30 year old harness though.
I agree though, a harness doesn't build itself, and is not something avoid considering. I'd rather start with new materials than try to revive a 30 year old harness though.
If you get all the materials then that is a plus, I've never heard of a supplier doing that though.
05-14-2020, 08:05 PM
#63
Great advice here, there are a couple of Motorsport wiring groups I would highly recommend joining if you have not already. Especially when you are starting with a clean slate...
Yes absolutely, no reason to use anything from the OEM harness and I'm not even sure you could do that reliably or professionally. In some cases for my harness I'm using the OEM device like ISV and coolant temp in the block but potting the connector and using a DTM instead. I don't like the OEM Bosch connectors, even though I believe you can get the push release style metal locking versions.
If you get all the materials then that is a plus, I've never heard of a supplier doing that though.
If you get all the materials then that is a plus, I've never heard of a supplier doing that though.
05-14-2020, 09:28 PM
#64
Hey guys, hacking, fraud and data breaches are really high right now, so serious question... Did your supreme leader's account get hacked or is this normal to have an occasional post without ignorance, arrogance, pretend expertise, and immature rhetoric?
05-14-2020, 10:31 PM
#65
Three Wheelin'
When I got my first standalone I decided I was either going to pay someone a ton of money to tune it, or pay myself the training to learn how to do it myself. I went to EFI 101, I think the company was EFI university or something like that. I went to the class after reading a couple books. The hands on experience on someone else's car was worth what I paid and really set me up with enough knowledge to tune at a hobbyist's level. Thanks for the HPacademy recommendation, I've been wanting to check out their stuff for a while, in an attempt to stay current. Good to know it's helpful. Might have to make some time for them during lock down.
However, learning more and more about aftermarket standalone ECUs and tuning my car has enabled an even deeper understanding of the OEM Porsche/BMW DME systems that I diagnose and repair on a daily basis. It also made me realize that tuning a basic Porsche 944 Turbo engine with speed/density system is a walk in the park compared to tuning a modern Bosch or GM system with multi-layered maps and compensation tables, blends of MAF and MAP for different engine running modes, variable camshaft timing, E-throttle, etc.
In any case, I like the HP Academy stuff because they travel around and interview top tuners and engine builders and get into detailed technical explanations of the latest and greatest trends in the aftermarket. It is mind-boggling what is out there. Part of the problem with the 944 Turbo crowd is they tend to be cheapskates (I largely include myself in that statement), and many are fighting existing mechanical or electrical issues with their cars that might not be fully understood. Add in even a simple standalone ECU system, and that compounds the pre-existing issues, as numerous VEMS users have found out.
Anyone considering an aftermarket standalone system should go back and study exactly what the factory DME/KLR system does. Many of the posts I see here and on both of the Facebook groups show a lack of understanding of the basics of the factory setup. Arming yourself with this information will be very helpful to fully understand the advantages of being able to integrate the functions of both (and much more) into a single unit and have the ability to datalog and add on whatever sensors and actuators you wish. @divil has taken a deeper dive into what the factory KLR does and doesn't do, and his page also has links to the original factory "Service Information Technik" and "DME Test Plan" manuals, which every 944 Turbo owner should read:
https://jhnbyrn.github.io/951-KLR-PAGES/
05-14-2020, 11:18 PM
#66
Quit Smokin'
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
hacked for sure... I don’t know about the rest of you guys, but I usually just leave my rennlist logged in at the library. Never know what I might post.
05-14-2020, 11:19 PM
#67
Quit Smokin'
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Yeah, webinars and online classes are quite helpful, but there's nothing like actual hands-on training. HP Academy is based in New Zealand, which is not exactly the easiest place to get to, so they did offer live "virtual" tuning sessions for their students where you could operate the dyno and tuning software remotely, but they recently pulled the plug citing cost reasons.
However, learning more and more about aftermarket standalone ECUs and tuning my car has enabled an even deeper understanding of the OEM Porsche/BMW DME systems that I diagnose and repair on a daily basis. It also made me realize that tuning a basic Porsche 944 Turbo engine with speed/density system is a walk in the park compared to tuning a modern Bosch or GM system with multi-layered maps and compensation tables, blends of MAF and MAP for different engine running modes, variable camshaft timing, E-throttle, etc.
In any case, I like the HP Academy stuff because they travel around and interview top tuners and engine builders and get into detailed technical explanations of the latest and greatest trends in the aftermarket. It is mind-boggling what is out there. Part of the problem with the 944 Turbo crowd is they tend to be cheapskates (I largely include myself in that statement), and many are fighting existing mechanical or electrical issues with their cars that might not be fully understood. Add in even a simple standalone ECU system, and that compounds the pre-existing issues, as numerous VEMS users have found out.
Anyone considering an aftermarket standalone system should go back and study exactly what the factory DME/KLR system does. Many of the posts I see here and on both of the Facebook groups show a lack of understanding of the basics of the factory setup. Arming yourself with this information will be very helpful to fully understand the advantages of being able to integrate the functions of both (and much more) into a single unit and have the ability to datalog and add on whatever sensors and actuators you wish. @divil has taken a deeper dive into what the factory KLR does and doesn't do, and his page also has links to the original factory "Service Information Technik" and "DME Test Plan" manuals, which every 944 Turbo owner should read:
https://jhnbyrn.github.io/951-KLR-PAGES/
However, learning more and more about aftermarket standalone ECUs and tuning my car has enabled an even deeper understanding of the OEM Porsche/BMW DME systems that I diagnose and repair on a daily basis. It also made me realize that tuning a basic Porsche 944 Turbo engine with speed/density system is a walk in the park compared to tuning a modern Bosch or GM system with multi-layered maps and compensation tables, blends of MAF and MAP for different engine running modes, variable camshaft timing, E-throttle, etc.
In any case, I like the HP Academy stuff because they travel around and interview top tuners and engine builders and get into detailed technical explanations of the latest and greatest trends in the aftermarket. It is mind-boggling what is out there. Part of the problem with the 944 Turbo crowd is they tend to be cheapskates (I largely include myself in that statement), and many are fighting existing mechanical or electrical issues with their cars that might not be fully understood. Add in even a simple standalone ECU system, and that compounds the pre-existing issues, as numerous VEMS users have found out.
Anyone considering an aftermarket standalone system should go back and study exactly what the factory DME/KLR system does. Many of the posts I see here and on both of the Facebook groups show a lack of understanding of the basics of the factory setup. Arming yourself with this information will be very helpful to fully understand the advantages of being able to integrate the functions of both (and much more) into a single unit and have the ability to datalog and add on whatever sensors and actuators you wish. @divil has taken a deeper dive into what the factory KLR does and doesn't do, and his page also has links to the original factory "Service Information Technik" and "DME Test Plan" manuals, which every 944 Turbo owner should read:
https://jhnbyrn.github.io/951-KLR-PAGES/
ive been lucky enough to not have to mess with the KLR much 😅
05-15-2020, 12:36 AM
#68
Rennlist Member
I had several conversations with the Premier Leader where he discussed doing stuff that made no sense at all, he is more focused on selling stuff than anything else. I have never seen him at the track ever and I have never seen him in a 944 EVER. To me he is all about flash, glitz, and mostly nonsense. My 2 cents 
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shortyboy (05-15-2020)
05-15-2020, 12:50 AM
#69
Addict
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We are done here. Stop the mud slinging.