red944turbo

I recently purchase the 46mm Tial wastegate from SFR, I am trying to hook up my dual stage boost controler and cannot seem to adjust boost at all. First I disconnected the cycling valve completly and capped off the the line from the turbo inlet. Then I ran a new line to the banjo fitting in the turbo to intercooler pipe to the side of the wastegate, in that same line I put a tee and ran that line to the "in" port on the boost controller. I then ran the new line from out put of the boost controller to the top of the wastegate. I believe I have hooked this up correctly but for some reason I am no able to adjust boost at all.Does anyone have any suggestion why this is not working? I cannot go past the spring rate of the wastgate. Thanks,

Danno

Looks like you hooked it up correctly. Search on past Tial threads and it appears that some of them have excessive amounts of Loctite on the insides that causes the diaphragm to stick and not dump boost.

ALso you're not using thin vacuum lines for boost-control are you? You should use stuff that's at least as thick and big as the stock lines.

red944turbo

The wastegate seems to be dumping the boost at the spring level if I just run the one line from the IC pipe to the wastegate, it's just that once I hook up the boost controller I cant get make the boost run higher. right now the car is only running .8 which feels really really slow compared to the 1.2 to 1.3 that it used to run.

Jason_86_951

It's probally stuck open. Manually apply air to see if you can hear it open/close.....if not disassemble WG and clean off stem.
HTH
J

emwporsche

Hmm I had this problem for a long time with my ebc, but it just got fixed recently.
Knowing what your boost controller was would help.

red944turbo

Its a turboXS dual stage manual boost controller. Right now the boost controller for the second stage is not hooked up, but from what I understand is, that it shouldnt matter because the first stage should still work. I have not tried hooking up the wires to the soleniod for the second stage yet becuase if it's the boost controller i dont want to have to undo the wires.

Danno

"Its a turboXS dual stage manual boost controller"

Yeah, this is like the 2-way BoostCube that SFR used to make. Two manual controllers that are electronically switched.

"The wastegate seems to be dumping the boost at the spring level if I just run the one line from the IC pipe to the wastegate,"

This appears to confirm that the wastegate is working correctly.

"it's just that once I hook up the boost controller I cant get make the boost run higher. right now the car is only running .8 which feels really really slow compared to the 1.2 to 1.3 that it used to run."

That's because you've got the boost-controller hoooked up in dual-port mode. You can only use dual-port configuration with a pressure-regulator controller which always sends a pressure-signal to the wastegate, thus causing it to creep open prematurely (boost doesn't build as fast and doesn't hit as hard).

The TurboXS should be hooked up only in single-port mode with the wastegate. Like the 1st two pictures in this diagram:

red944turbo

Thanks for the diagram that should help

J Chen

Hi Danno,
Will using dual port pressure
regulator afford better boost
control & responds using an MBC ?

Thanks

UK952

With optiopn 3 in the diagram could you put a reliaboost between the 'T' and the boost port? would this hold the wg shut until the reliaboost opened? (might be tricky to set up).
Tony

Danno

"Will using dual port pressure regulator afford better boost control & responds using an MBC ?"

Are you comparing a check-valve controller vs. the pressure-regulator type?

The check-valve holds back all pressure until a desired pressure is reached, at which time, it sends a certain amount through. As such, the wastegate is completely closed until desired boost is reached. For example, if you have a 0.7-bar spring in the Tial and you wanted 1.2-bar of boost, you'd adjust the check-valve controller to send through 0.7-bar of pressure to open the wastegate when 1.2-bar is present on the inlet side.

A pressure regulator works in the opposite way in that it always sends pressure to the wastegate. Just that it limits pressure to a preset limit as boost increases. So as boost builds 0-2-4-6-8 psi, all of this is sent through to the wastegate unhindered. Pressures above 10-12-14-16-18psi are regulated, such that 8psi always makes it to the wastegate. It's this regulated pressure that causes the pressure-differential that opens the wastegate. As the straight line to the boost port goes to 10-12-14-16-18psi , the regulated side stays at 8psi. Thus a pressure-differential of 2-4-6-8-10psi is generated with the final 10psi opening the wastegate. So a finite-state diagram would like this for a Tial with 0.7-bar spring:

M=manifold boost, V=vacuum port, B=boost-port

M_V_ B
6 6 6
8 8 8
10 8 10
12 8 12
14 8 14
16 8 16
18 8 18

Note that it's the pressure-differential that opens the wasteate in dua-port mode. At no time, is there a net force on the valve-spring greater than spring-tension. Boost is NEVER used to force the spring shut, ONLY to push it open.

"With optiopn 3 in the diagram could you put a reliaboost between the 'T' and the boost port? would this hold the wg shut until the reliaboost opened? (might be tricky to set up)."

No, this would give the following states on the wastegate (assuming you keep pressure-regulator on the vacuum port):

M=manifold boost, V=vacuum port, B=boost-port

M_V_ B
6 6 0
8 8 0
10 8 2
12 8 4
14 8 6
16 8 8
18 8 10

Note that at 18psi in the manifold, you only have a pressure-differential of 2psi and it would need 10psi to open the wastegate. So you'd end up with a 26psi max-boost level before the wastgate would even open:

B__V_ B
20 8 12
22 8 14
24 8 16
26 8 18

Note also like in the first example, while you may have positive force clamping the wastgate shut initally, prior to the wastegate opening, you still have a net force of less than spring-tension on the valve betwen 18-26psi as the pressure-differential is created. So if you were to adjust the two controllers to give 1.2-bar boost, it would behave exactly the same as with a single pressure-regulator in dual-port mode, that is, pressure creeping into the wastegate before you want it. This results in lazy boost build-up and more turbo-lag than necessary.

The ONLY time a dual-port configuration gives better performance than single-port with check-valve controller is when using an electronic boost controller with dual solenoids.

tazman

Danno I was thinking about putting a check valve type controller in front of my AVC-R solenoid and setting it at 2psi lower then my boost pressure so the wastegate would not open as soon since I only have a .8 bar spring on the waste gate. I think this would help the spool up but would not be necessary if the AVC-R would not use the same duty cycle throughout the first 3000 rpm's. Oh and just to make things clear I am running the tial in single port mode. So does my reasoning sound correct? Will this help at all?

Danno

Hmm, you can program the AVC-R in customized RPM-based boost-curve (set customized duty-cycle adjustment for each gear) I would just set boost from 0-3000rpm at whatever boost-level you want, or slightly higher. The computer will then control the boost-solenoid to send 100% of the air away from the wastegate since the desired boost hasn't been reached yet. This is the same has having a check-valve inline. Then you should have the boost-curve rise every so slightly in the last RPM-range to compensate for the natural boost-drop.

tazman

The problem I am having is if I go above 55% duty cycle the boost is to high before it goes on to the next step the AVC-R has. Also the highest duty cycle the AVC-R has is 90% so there is always some signal going to the wastegate although this is probably a very small amount I am sure it does open the wastegate some. The way I have it now my duty cycle is actually lower at 3500 to make up for the extra I have in for the quicker spool up. I don't want to change the RPM point on the AVC-R because then it will either leave a hole somewhere or I would have to group more on at the upper RPMs I might just go in with the group buy on the acuboost to see how it works. Thanks for your input Danno.

Duke

You need a bigger turbo