mkane

Can anyone give me a list of parts I would need to upgrade my 1987 951 front brakes to 928s or s4. Is there a diff between the two? Which should I get. I tried muliple searches but could not find info. I only use the car for DE's. Thanks in advance.

CPTdooberhead

Big Black calipers, good pads, and the rotors.
http://www.lindseyracing.com/Merchan...e=944BRAKECOMP

-Randy

mkane

Do I need to get Adapers or will they just bolt on?

Indica

Big blacks are not S4 brakes. S4 are off the M030 cars or the 928s4. Big blacks come from the 928GTS. You'll need adaptors for Big blacks, which are exactly the same brakes as Big REDs exept they mount easier due to the fact that they are meant to be mounted in the trailing position unlike big reds which are meant for mounting in the leading position. If you get the one peice 911 rotors you do not need the extra rotor hats (still need caliper mounts).
I am not sure if you need adaptors to mount the S4 brakes to a non M030 car- anyone know?
Here is some info off of Tom Pultz www.944s2.com web site- check it out- great info...
PS- I will have some S4 brakes and rotors for sale soon (bought a 968 M030 parts car and will be going with big blacks instead of the S-4- car should be here this coming week). Updating my 86 951 to the 968M030 suspention.


M030 OPTION FRONT BRAKES: A 944 S2 equipped with the very rare M030 Sports Suspension option uses the same size front brakes as those used on the 1988 944 Turbo S or 1989 944 Turbo. These larger Brembo calipers first appeared on the 928 S4 so are routinely referred to as the "S4 brakes." The piston sizes are 36 and 44 mm and the corresponding brake pad width is a very substantial 132 mm. The front rotors used with these "S4" calipers have a diameter of 304 mm (11.97 in) and a thickness of 32 mm (1.26 in).

M030 cars use different steering knuckles and hubs. Different knuckles are required because the S4 caliper attaches using a radial mount as opposed to the axial mount for the standard caliper. Different hubs are used to accommodate the 4 mm increased thickness of the M030 rotor.

When it comes to brakes, bigger is generally better :-) Fortunately, 944 Turbo and 944 S2 owners need only search as far as the factory parts bin for something that's even larger than the M030 S4 brakes. Note: this brake upgrade requires the use of 17" wheels or special modular 16" wheels to clear the larger calipers. Non M030 cars also require caliper mounting adapters to convert from axial mount calipers to radial mount calipers. I purchased mine from Broadfoot Racing. 1986 944 Turbo cars require modifications or a specially engineered adapter kit because of their different offset requirements.

BIG RED CALIPERS: The famous Porsche "big red" Brembo calipers from the late model 911 C2 Turbo or 993 Twin Turbo work well on late model 944s or 968s. Since these calipers were originally made to mount in the leading position in front of the axle they must be rotated around for use in the trailing position on the 944 or 968 series cars. Mounting the calipers in this location introduces three minor problems: 1) the location of the bleeder fittings and cross-over tube must be swapped, 2) the brake pad retention spring is now hinged at the top instead of at the bottom of the pad area, and 3) the brake line inlet is now at the top piston location instead of at the bottom piston location (not necessarily true anymore... the design may have changed)

BIG BLACK CALIPERS: The minor "problems" with the big red calipers are not usually a concern. However, in order to maintain factory reliability and improve brake fluid cooling I wanted to use the 2-piece combination steel and rubber brakes lines from the M030 944 S2 (see picture above). These lines use a rigid steel tube between the caliper and strut mount and this really helps cool the brake fluid. In order to use these lines a caliper with the fluid inlet location in the stock position is required. Therefore, I chose the 928 GTS "big black" calipers. These calipers are physically the same size as the big reds and use the same size brake pads. However, since they are meant to mount in the trailing position they are a true bolt-on option. They also don't show the brake dust!

The piston sizes used in the big red or GTS 4-piston Brembo calipers are the same size as those used in the M030 option S4 calipers, namely 36 and 44 mm. The brake pad width is also the same 132 mm. However, the brake pad depth is increased substantially to match the larger rotor diameter.

ROTORS: Three factory front rotor options are available for big red or big black calipers:

928 GTS — 1-piece, "non-drilled," same offset as '87 and on 944 Turbo or 944 S2.

911 C2 3.6 Turbo — 1-piece, "drilled," same offset as '87 and on 944 Turbo or 944 S2.

993 Twin Turbo (TT) — 2-piece (separate rotor and mounting hat), "drilled," 5 mm less offset than above options. Not for use on cars originally equipped with S4 calipers (M030 option) unless custom alloy hats are used.

CPTdooberhead

Why go to S4 brakes when you can just go to big blacks or big reds....

Renn 951

S4 brakes will work with some 16" wheels. Big Blacks/Reds will require 17" wheels.

Indica

I would go with S4 if I was on more of a budget- you can pick them up used for a good deal. They are great brakes. But I am personally going with the big black calipers- you gain a bit of mechanical advantage with the bigger rotors (calipers are pretty much the same as the big blacks).

Also I checked into the S4 brakes on non M030 cars- you do still need to purchase the caliper adaptors.

wjk_glynn

Here is a list of parts : http://www.weissach.net/968_M030-Opt...ml#FrontBrakes

However, you might also want to consider upgrading the brake lines : http://www.weissach.net/968_M030-Opt...rontBrakeLines

You will need to use adaptors with the stock 87 951 spindles. If you don't want to use adaptors, you will also need the special spindles and other hardware : http://www.weissach.net/968_M030-Opt...nucklesAndHubs

Karl.

RajDatta

I might be willing to sell my M030 S4 setup which includes calipers, cry treated cast drilled 968 M030 rotors and pads. I also have a set of Pagid blue's to go with this setup.
Let me know if you are interested.
Raj