DDP

Hey guys,
I have been asking myself this question for awhile now. A friend of mine has a corrado vr6. His car handles very well. Im just asking because the ablity of a car to handle well is in the stickiness of it to the road...including suspension, temp, tires, balance..yeah yeah yeah. So with FWD you have the engine and trans weight on the front tires, that adds more weight therefore making it more difficult to move the tires so it sticks better. Also, there might be more oversteer, but if you can just throw yourself into a turn know you wont hav any understeer you can just correct the oversteer...i dont know about you but i cant correct understeer. I know that I have understeering issues...but lets not get into that. Does FWD handle better than RWD..both with ideal setups....I am a little confused on this and was hoping for a little input from those you track/autoX. Thanks

Mike Buck

Do you understand the concepts behind understeer and oversteer? Not trying to be a d**k, but its hard for me to believe one can't control understeer. Lift off, maybe hit brake, keep wheel on same line.

Oversteer is the one that is counterintuitive . . . stay on the power, countersteer etc..

streckfu's

Sure. In the snow.....



I was tought that all thing being equal, the RWD will handle better. The biggest reason being that front wheel drive cars require too much from their front wheels. They have to drive the car as well as turn them. And, as you mentioned, most FWD cars understeer when driving out of corners while a RWD car can induce oversteer with the throttle.

Mike Buck

Actually, he said the opposite of this

lightweight RWD is the best handling combination . . . i.e miata, elise, etc..

Kesepton

rwd hands down

clubracer6

RWD all day long. Hence no FWD race cars from, Ferrari, Porsche, BMW (Mini is not a BMW) or the like out there. Also take notice that Cadillac, Lincoln, Infinity and even Acura are ditching FWD all together.

macnewma

I can't argue the scientific benefits of either configuration...but you would be hard pressed to find a professional race car with FWD (aside from rally or some SCCA showroom stock classes). I wonder why that is?

That being said, you can make a great race car out of a FWD chassis (CRX, Integra, Prelude come to mind). To the best of my knowledge, though, those cars are most competitive when pitted against similar FWD cars or allowed to run lighter or more HP.

I think the difference between AWD and RWD in a race setting is a more interesting consideration. Especially given that you can control the distribution of power between front and rear on AWD. Hey, we already have limited slip, why not between the front and the rear.

Oh yeah, you might want to post this question on the Racing board, they are more into these discussions.

Max

tifosiman

I agree that RWD handles better than FWD in the hands of a capable driver.

The general american public, however, is much better off driving FWD cars. Here in Ohio during the winter months, if it weren't for FWD cars, I would see thousands of imbecils off the road backwards in ditches (as opposed to the hundreds I see normally). Oversteer correction and throttle control are foreign concepts to most people. IMHO

DDP

thanks for the input guys. But on the understeering issue, it more of the fact that I dont react fast enough before im in a ditch or something. On tight roads understeering is an issue for me. Its specifically my car though, not generally RWD. And,Mike, you arent being a d**k, that was an honest question and Im not a very experienced driver.

M758

Sounds like you need to spend some time at PCA autocrosses. There you will learn about understeer and oversteer and how feel and correct both situations.

There are lot of complexities around FWD vs RWD. Really to many to list, but the biggest drawback that FWD has that really can't ever be dialed out is that it overworks the front tires. Ask the tire to turn, brake, and accelerate is just too much.

Chris Moon

Check out Carrol Smith's books or most any book on auto-X, you'll end up at the same reason why top race cars are not FWD: traction circle. I hope I don't end up sounding like I know more than I do, but here goes. Feel free to correct me where I'm wrong.

Tire grip is a vector sum, meaning in this case that the total grip a tire can provide in one or more directions (for acceleration/braking and turning) is limited. RWD splits up the traction load on the tires so that the back tires provide forward motion and lateral grip. At the same time, the front tires are providing steering plus lateral grip. If you think of this as 4 jobs to do (forward motion, lateral grip at the rear, steering and lateral grip at the front), RWD cars split this up evenly front and back. In a FWD car the front tires are asked to do 3 of the 4. I would guess that this translates in to being able to put the power down earlier coming out of a corner, but I'm sure there are other benefits as well.


CM

DDP

I know. I want to go very badly but I fear for my #2 bearing. This winter I will be baffling my oil pan for safe autoX next season. Thanks for the info guys.

Ahmet

FWD and RWD cannot be expressly compared. That is one aspect of "handling" which is a subjective term. The higher end sports cars tend to be RWD, but everybody has their preferences.

I would suggest picking up a couple of books ("how to make your car handle" is a descent one), and doing some auto-xes if you're interested in better controlling your 944 turbo, or learning about the merits of weight distribution, drive wheels, etc.
Ahmet

jim944s2

The only reason the mfg's build fwd is because it's cheaper. Plus, torque steer becomes an issue w/ higher hp (ever wonder why Honda builds two rwd cars?, and they're both over 200 hp?). That being said, fwd can be faster on wet or other loose surfaces. btw; your car is SO much better balanced than a Corrado vr6.
A more aggressive alignment will help your understeer a lot in a 951, and don't let the fear of #2 keep you off the auto-x track, I think it's mostly lapping events where people toast their bottom ends. Just use Mobil 1 and keep the oil level up.

theedge

The #2 bearing seems to usually die on track events, where you are going through long curves at very high speed for exetended periods of time. Auto-X is all smaller tighter turns.