Techno Duck

Im honestly very surprised the car failed, and did so by such biblical proportions...

Test Limit
HC: .8 GPM
CO: 15.00 GPM
NOx: 2.0 GPM

Vehicle Readings
HC: 7.41 GPM
CO: 94.93 GPM
NOx: 5.18 GPM

Yes, i feel honored my car is at 6x the CO limit. No doubt the car is running stupid rich. I took the car to a Porsche dealer and i trust they ran the car up to temp.. though who knows as i wasnt present and didnt ask. Anyhow so as i see it, the HC and NOx are probably higher than they should be because the amount of fuel coming out and possibly burning up in the exhaust. I double checked the FQS position and its set at the stock '0' setting.

The car setup is as follows..

LR Stage 1 head
Full 3'' exhaust with SFR bolt in cat-section in place (has less than 1k miles on it)
38mm Tial wastegate, dumping to atmosphere (they dont really care about visual inspection)
Stock chips
Lindsey MBC set to 11psi
Stock heat range NGK coppers

The wideband gives normal readings... cold start i get around 11-12 AFR and after a minute it goes to 14.7 ... which tells me it is going into closed loop as its supposed to. I figured the O2 sensor was fine because the car boosts correctly and i get pretty normal AFR's when at partial throttle. But i am unsure of the mileage / age of the O2 sensor so it will be replaced sometime in the next few days.

I just redid the entire top end (new headgasket) maybe 5k miles ago so i find it hard to believe i have any leaks, but will be smoke testing at my friends shop tonight. I dont think i have leaks as i get between 18-20'' hg vacuum at warm idle, up from the 16'' i used to get prior to the headgasket job (i found a blown intake gasket and a few cracked hoses).

K&N air filter in stock airbox was cleaned less than 1000 miles ago.

Anyhow, just thought id share how my 951 is contributing to global warming .

MPD47

Leave the city, get it inspected up here. No emissions requirements

Techno Duck

Mike, im actually considering it. How far up do i have to go to not have to do emissions? Out past the Hudson valley?

I am going to replace the O2 sensor and run a bottle of fuel injector cleaner and the other usual tricks to get it to pass. I guess the question at this point is do i do it the 'right' way and have it redone or take it to a 'guy' i know in Queen's.. Im really curious to know what the culprit is and if anything i do actually helps the situation.

I have a strong feeling the car was passed with something else running behind it previously as all the other inspection reports show it passing with flying colors from the previous owner. I guess its also possible the AFM was screwed around with in the cars past. Im really tempted to just throw the Vitesse MAF and injectors on my credit card now, rather than doing the rational thing and waiting until i actually have the money on hand for it. This way i can replace the O2 sensor while im putting the other turbo in . 'While your in there...'

Oh well, 5 more years to go and it becomes emissions exempt .

sm

Give these guys a call. They know the 944 well:

S.M. Motor Sports, Inc.**
140 Lakeville Road
New Hyde Park, NY 11040
Phone: (516) 775-8655
Fax: (516) 775-8626
Email: smmotorsports@optonline.net

MPD47

I honestly have no idea where testing stops. I know they dont do it from Albany west, but dont know how far south they dont test. Sorry!

Scootin159

I'm pretty sure you don't have to go very far, perhaps even orange county area is far enough...

Scootin159

http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/vehsafe.htm#einspect

btw... it technically says it goes by where the car's registered, not where its inspected. Not sure how they can tell... do you get a different sticker?

marky522

You just need to figure out why your running so rich, as you said your PIG RICH... HC's are high becasue there isnt enough air to complete combustion, and CO is the same thing, there isnt enough oxygen to make co2... I am just guessing but FPR??? What has me extremly confused is that you have a wide band??? Something has to be off???

Mark

Techno Duck

SM, i do know S&M. Infact i bought the car from Tom R and thats where he used to have it serviced. Prior to that it was being serviced by Rudtner's in Freeport. I did call tS&M last year to have my '87 inspected but they gave me the usual 'sorry our dyno is broken'. I dont blame them, running older cars on the dyno takes atleast an hour to setup, run the car and break it down. And all they get is a measly $37 for it.

I am really wondering though if a bad O2 sensor is going to skew the numbers that badly.

Mark, thats what has me confused also. My wideband is telling me 14.6-15 AFR at warm idle (it bounces around). Under partial throttle im getting mid 14 AFR's and full load i am getting 11-12 AFR's with these stock chips... 10-11 with the APE Stage 2 (yes i know they suck). So honestly it seems fine.. but the test results say otherwise.

KLR

I would second the recommendation of Sonny at SM. He used to take care of my 951 when I lived in NYC and always did fantastic work at a fair price. He is also an emmissions test center.

My $0.02 on your readings is that either your cat is not working or they didn't warm the car up sufficiently (or at all?). Since you are high on all three readings, it's not clear that you are running rich or lean.

Techno Duck

KLR, its bugging the heck out of me also the fact the wideband is saying something completley different compared to the results on the actual dyno. I am going to call the guy tomorrow and ask him directly. I originally took the car to the Porsche dealer because i know one of the master tech's from the PCA auto-x events. But it ended up being the service manager who ran the car. I took it there because its becoming increasingly hard to find someone willing to even run the car on the dyno and someone who isnt going to burn up my clutch or bang my synchro's shifting it on the dyno. The other thing is i think most places dont want to bother with it if i am not going to leave the car for the them to fix. I figure thats why most shops even run the dyno anymore because they expect some income from fixing the problems. Not me taking the car home to work on my self.

I honestly dont think the problem lies with the cat as i would expect to see high NOx levels and not so much ridiculous CO and HC levels. Even then, the cat cannot have more than 1-1.5k miles on it as it was previously swapped out before and after each inspection.

I hate to call him because i feel like its a slap in the face coming from a 22 year old kid asking him his emission testing techniques, but i just have to ask. and plus it sucks having to pay another $37 and wasting half a day taking the car to have it run.

Van

I'm in dutchess county - and no emissions here...

That said, I wonder what my stock turbo with an open exhaust would do?

bitburgerluvr

Ya know, I watched a show the other night on nukes. Over 300 atmospheric nukes were tested from the 40's to 60's. I had no idea so many were tested!!!! How can a 4cyl missing a cat and using a little extra gas really hurt the environment?

Hey, what was the humidity level? I know its sort of a long shot but sometimes different humidity levels can change things a little. I was talking to a guy at the drag races yesterday and he say his supercharged engine runs really rich when its going to rain. Just another thought.

PEvans

My less than $.02 is that if you are high on HC it may not be just the cat. I think with a properly-tuned car you would make the HC number even with a bad cat. The car might have been cold, and the O2 sensor might be bad. Those are cheap places to start. Another thing to consider is the RPM for the test. You might get these types of numbers if the engine is lugging along at 1400 RPM. It should be around 2500; sometimes you have to bug the test guy to get it up there.

Dom1

Before you do anything to the car I would get it retested somewhere else. I had my car tested and it failed than went down the street and had it tested somewhere else and it passed. Either the machines are unreliable or the operator is.