Any 951 and e36 M3 owners? Pics...

[TurdFerguson]

Originally Posted by MPD47

The Euro S50 is a direct evolution of the S38, probably why it has similar head castings, parts of the timing system are interchangeable, along with the ignition system of the B38 and a few other little bits.

Why do you think it has an intermediate housing for the cams opposed to having them directly in the head... wait.... what other BMW engine does that... oh yes, the S38.

No - the S38 is in every way shape and form an M49/M88 based design, essentially an M30 with increased displacement 24v and some timing chain differences. The distributorless ignition on the 3.8L variant was due to European I changes, requiring them to move to a Bosch 1.3 management for better emissions control. The bores are approximately 94mm while the S50B32 is 86.4 - that makes the S38 nearly 2" longer just in piston size alone. It has an intermediate head housing because of its solid lifter design - this is how BMW always does their solid lifter heads, so you can easily remove the cams as a unit to work on the lifter shims.

Timing systems are no interchangeable one uses a VR sensor for the head and one uses a Hall sensor for the head, one has no vanos, one has dual vanos, the coil packs are different part numbers, the timing wheels do not line up, the timing chains are different, etc.

Anyway, its well known that the S38 is a derivative of the M88/M30 given how similar they are - S38 cranks fit in M30 blocks as strokers, not S50's. The S50 is an M50 based engine and has a completely different head - the casting is nothing alike as you're dealing with a dual vanos head and a non vanos head. The timing wheels are different and triggers line up at different moments. They're about as similar as a yak is to a mule.

[Josh B]

Originally Posted by TurdFerguson

No - the S38 is in every way shape and form an M49/M88 based design, essentially an M30 with increased displacement 24v and some timing chain differences. The distributorless ignition on the 3.8L variant was due to European I changes, requiring them to move to a Bosch 1.3 management for better emissions control. The bores are approximately 94mm while the S50B32 is 86.4 - that makes the S38 nearly 2" longer just in piston size alone. It has an intermediate head housing because of its solid lifter design - this is how BMW always does their solid lifter heads, so you can easily remove the cams as a unit to work on the lifter shims.

Timing systems are no interchangeable one uses a VR sensor for the head and one uses a Hall sensor for the head, one has no vanos, one has dual vanos, the coil packs are different part numbers, the timing wheels do not line up, the timing chains are different, etc.

Anyway, its well known that the S38 is a derivative of the M88/M30 given how similar they are - S38 cranks fit in M30 blocks as strokers, not S50's. The S50 is an M50 based engine and has a completely different head - the casting is nothing alike as you're dealing with a dual vanos head and a non vanos head. The timing wheels are different and triggers line up at different moments. They're about as similar as a yak is to a mule.

Hi - Welcome to Rennlist! You seem to be quite knowledgeable about BMWs. Have you driven/worked on one before? What sort of 944 do you drive? What part of the country are you in? Sorry for all the questions - just always glad to see new folks come aboard!

[MPD47]

Originally Posted by TurdFerguson

Timing systems are no interchangeable one uses a VR sensor for the head and one uses a Hall sensor for the head, one has no vanos, one has dual vanos, the coil packs are different part numbers, the timing wheels do not line up, the timing chains are different, etc.

Anyway, its well known that the S38 is a derivative of the M88/M30 given how similar they are - S38 cranks fit in M30 blocks as strokers, not S50's.

No shit the S38 is an M88 evolution (which is, in fact, originally based on the M30, good job you can read wikipedia), that's blatantly obvious. I've at one point or another owned all of the above mentioned engines except the M88 and done a bit of research on them. In terms of a design standpoint, the Euro S50 shares more in common with the S38 design than the anemic US Spec M50/S50/S52. You're pretty ignorant if you can't acknowledge that. And yes, portions of the timing system swap over, hell it's a common upgrade for e34 M5's to use parts from Euro S50's. Yay for people who jump onto boards and quote wikipedia to try and discredit reputable users! Take your girlfriend's Z3 and go back to bimmerforums Chase.

[DanG]

Sadly, my 951 and M3 have never even met. I bought the M3 when I moved from PA/MI to CA, while the engineless 951 is still 2500 miles away back in the garage at home.



http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/reader-rides/148/

The M3 has been my daily driver for most of the past 3 years (when I'm not driving the '93 325 or 944 NA!) and has been a hoot. Absolutely excellent car. Its everything the magazines said it was and people that haven't driven them wonder if it can be. 240hp is plenty quick enough too. Sure I'd love 300hp, but I don't find myself wishing it had more power that often. Really good balance.

Things are finally dropping into place to get things moving on the 951 project again. I've been driving the 944 more frequently lately, both to say goodbye to my high school Porsche and because even with the M3 in the stable I find myself itching for the crazy low seating position and the smiles the 944 puts on my face.



http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/reader-rides/150/