Mega Squirt DIY KIT - Page 2

CPR · 11-16-2009, 09:36 PM

Joka,
I didn't mean AAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL that.

Just how close to blowing something

JohnKoaWood · 11-16-2009, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPR

Joka,
I didn't mean AAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL that.

Just how close to blowing something

Yeah, but I figure if it blow up, it needs to be replaced with something bigger, faster, stronger... we have the technology... and the means...

A.Wayne · 11-16-2009, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnKoaWood

Said the winner of the "best bent rod award" !

hmmmm

.............................

Quote:

Originally Posted by alxdgr8

Ask theedge how his MS install went

...he doesn't have his nice rod picture as his avatar anymore.

..

INURGRL951 · 11-17-2009, 01:25 AM

Hey Pat you looking for a way to pick up your car did I catch a hint on that?

flosho · 11-17-2009, 01:35 AM

Well if you blow it up on the dyno, then the dyno operator or tuner is doing something wrong. Unless it was a hardware failure i dont see how you would lose timing? The settings are the settings.

Chris White · 11-17-2009, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flosho

Well if you blow it up on the dyno, then the dyno operator or tuner is doing something wrong. Unless it was a hardware failure i dont see how you would lose timing? The settings are the settings.

And I don't see how Windows crashes either...must be operator error...!

There is a growing number of folks that belive the MS system ocassionaly (not very often - but it only takes once at the right time) has an igniton timing glitch due to soemthing in the code. It has happened to a number of people. I know of some dyno operators that won't allow MS cars on his dyno anymore.

Hmmm...MS=Megasquirt......MS=Microsoft.....

FoundSoul · 11-17-2009, 11:35 AM

Jerry from DIYAutoTune.com here for full disclosure

. Call me biased as you may, but I'd have to challenge that MegaSquirt EFI has a 'random grenade' sequence in the code making your spark timing go haywire at inopportune moments that cause motors to randomly explode. While bugs are always possible in any code, the MS code goes from alpha, to beta, to release, and by the time it's in release it's solid. Does that mean perfect? Is any code perfect? Maybe not, but I've heard professional tuners argue that the MS code is more solid than other systems, that you won't see me or my team going around pooing on in the name of self-promotion, we do what we do, and do it well. They do what they do, and it works well too. Cool.

But any idea of being afraid of MegaSquirt because it's affordable is just hogwash. Or disliking it because a tuner had a bad experience (more on this in a minute). I can list just as many tuners that love MS and will tell you it's just as good as any other EMS out there. We've have a world record on the salt flats, running on some of our oldest hardware. We have wins in club racing (enduros even, talk about requiring consistency and being abusive), in drag racing, etc, etc. The system is solid. The implementation, well, that's up to the user or installer, and with possibly more systems out there than any other EMS, often installed by DIYers, sure there has been room for error in the install department. But properly installed, rock solid.

I think any idea of weakness in the MS comes from the implementation rather than the design. I tune commercially here at my shop on a DynaPack 4000 from time to time, core purpose of the dyno is R&D, but we do some commercial tuning too. I've seen professionally installed systems come in rock solid, and I've seen 'professionally' installed systems in need of help, with rough wiring and miswiring. I've seen DIY installed setups come in clean, and I've seen DIY setups come in with grounds to rusty body panels and wire nuts holding things together. MegaSquirt is so massively flexible that it allows you to use an huge list of factory components, ignition trigger wheels, ignitors, coils, etc. Different components require different settings to support them. This requires some knowledge and willingness to do a bit of research to set things up right for your vehicle if you're blazing a new trail. It gives you the flexibility to set the system up for just about any car on the road, and it gives you the flexibility to burn your ignitor up with the output settings inverted, or too much dwell. But you did that, not the MS, it gave you the power to succeed or fail, and most succeed.

If a tuner has seen an improperly setup system come in and fail on their dyno, I can understand why they'd be shy. But when you've seen 249mph land speed cars, 10sec flat drag cars, and multiple front of the pack club racers running these systems consistently, and when you've tuned well over a hundred cars and never had some 'random unexplained timing grenade incident', you don't question, you know. This system is rock solid when properly installed and tuned. And would any system be rock solid if it wasn't?

Jerry a.k.a. 'FoundSoul'
www.diyautotune.com

Chris White · 11-17-2009, 12:15 PM

Jerry's post actually has the "ring of truth" to it.

I have seen the same thing with various stand alone installs. The installation is as important as the ECU. In addition the more versatile and powerful the ECU the greater the chance of tuning errors. (Which is why I always stress customer support is critical to success with a standalone system).

The ‘problem’ with the MS systems that I have heard about may be just that – installer/tuning errors. Hard to tell unless a lot of forensic research is done.

JustinL · 11-17-2009, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schip43

JustinL the Diy Kit with a Ford EDIS trigger would take care of the trigger issue correct? Additional cost for crank trigger but that would work won't it? It,s more work and expensive than I want to deal with at the moment but I want to know how close this is to a semi plug and play.

I don't see why it wouldn't work with a normal trigger wheel welded on. I think it would just be a matter of uploading the .msq file and tuning. I had it running pretty well up to 2900RPM with stable spark, but the 132 tooth trigger wheel was what I couldn't get to work at higher revs. I think this problem has been sorted out by someone smarter than me

Everything was working with stock sensors +GM map and iat sensors.

Here's my old thread: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...ht=microsquirt

There should be some info that can help others get up and running. I noticed that my .msq links are broken, so I'll have to dig those out again and post them up.

With the Turbo S, I'm using MS2 extra for fuel, boost and next season launch control.

flosho · 11-17-2009, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris White

The ‘problem’ with the MS systems that I have heard about may be just that – installer/tuning errors. Hard to tell unless a lot of forensic research is done.

Knowing the nature of megasquirt, I would bet there has been more than one dyno operator that has been blamed for wrecking an engine when its in fact the installer that causes the failure. It's much easier for most people to blame someone else than to make a bone headed mistake and take responsibility for it.

I'm not gonna say the MS code is perfect or without flaw, but the released versions of the code are pretty tidy.

I guess what we need is someone to come in, make a plug and play kit for the 951 and put it inside a box labeled something besides megasquirt then charge $2500 for it and people here would buy it.

Chris White · 11-17-2009, 02:48 PM

Hmmm....Gigasquirt....I get to work on it right away...

CPR · 11-17-2009, 02:59 PM

Jerry,

The only downfall with the MS kit is the two KEY components missing that all the other kits have.

BEER AND HOOKERS

Include these and yours will most definitely be included

On a serious note, +1 on the "who is doing the tuning"......I am going through this myself with a different kit. And what was fool proof was not so fool proof.....or maybe it was the fool that was proofing (myself included in that statement).

FoundSoul · 11-17-2009, 03:11 PM

Can't help with the hookers, but come on down to the shop one night and we can have a beer and a stogie... do that every week or two here with a small group.

schip43 · 11-17-2009, 10:56 PM

FoundSoul

Mega Squirt DIY Kit for the 951 with Ford EDIS( ditch the speed referencing sensors) and the ability to use the KLK to control Knock? Is that to much to ask for?

flosho · 11-17-2009, 11:35 PM

Negative on the FORD edis.. You'll want MS to control the spark via a 36-1 trigger wheel. That we we can use launch control/flat shift. EDIS doesn't do full spark cut.

11-16-2009, 09:36 PM	#16
CPR Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Right of the Wrong Posts: 3,292	Joka, I didn't mean AAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL that. Just how close to blowing something __________________ Originally Posted by ehall "This is the tech board. You should have just said that your tech problem was that you are a big dumbass. Then we could have helped you troubleshoot the way you screwed up a perfectly good turbo!" <-----------------Originally Posted by Black Jack "I am not a dog. I am a black helicopter. I run a FEMA camp. Nothing to see here....move along."

11-17-2009, 01:25 AM	#19
INURGRL951 Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: out in the sticks and flat lands of va wondering around for an open field or pavement!!! Posts: 1,170	Hey Pat you looking for a way to pick up your car did I catch a hint on that? __________________ Costas Georgiou A few porsche's most of you will see one day but till then <---"Playboy"

11-17-2009, 01:35 AM	#20
flosho Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Eau Claire, WI Posts: 499	Well if you blow it up on the dyno, then the dyno operator or tuner is doing something wrong. Unless it was a hardware failure i dont see how you would lose timing? The settings are the settings. __________________ Jason Flora Meet Your Destiny 1981 924 Turbo - EFI conversion, Turbo Twists, and Flaires coming next 1985 BMW 323i - Euro, stripped, bottle caps, auto-x, co driven.

11-17-2009, 12:15 PM	#23
Chris White Addict Rennlist Member Rennlist Small Business Sponsor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Marietta, NY Posts: 4,365	Jerry's post actually has the "ring of truth" to it. I have seen the same thing with various stand alone installs. The installation is as important as the ECU. In addition the more versatile and powerful the ECU the greater the chance of tuning errors. (Which is why I always stress customer support is critical to success with a standalone system). The ‘problem’ with the MS systems that I have heard about may be just that – installer/tuning errors. Hard to tell unless a lot of forensic research is done. __________________ PCA Instructor BMW CCA Instructor PCA Tech Inspector 86 951 GT3 Track Car (2.6L 16v turbo) (still under construction!) 87 951 'fun' Track Car (3.1L 16v turbo) 87 951 'spare' Track car 86 951 Street Car (2.75 8v turbo) 94 968 Cab - replaced S2 Cab 00 Audi S4 - winter car 07 Dodge Full sized Tool 65 Shelby GT-350 - track rat from 1980's 66 Mustang convertible - finish restoration some day..... 02 Mini Cooper S 85 Barth - 8.2 turbo

11-17-2009, 02:48 PM	#26
Chris White Addict Rennlist Member Rennlist Small Business Sponsor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Marietta, NY Posts: 4,365	Hmmm....Gigasquirt....I get to work on it right away... __________________ PCA Instructor BMW CCA Instructor PCA Tech Inspector 86 951 GT3 Track Car (2.6L 16v turbo) (still under construction!) 87 951 'fun' Track Car (3.1L 16v turbo) 87 951 'spare' Track car 86 951 Street Car (2.75 8v turbo) 94 968 Cab - replaced S2 Cab 00 Audi S4 - winter car 07 Dodge Full sized Tool 65 Shelby GT-350 - track rat from 1980's 66 Mustang convertible - finish restoration some day..... 02 Mini Cooper S 85 Barth - 8.2 turbo

11-17-2009, 11:35 AM	#22
FoundSoul User Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 7	Jerry from DIYAutoTune.com here for full disclosure . Call me biased as you may, but I'd have to challenge that MegaSquirt EFI has a 'random grenade' sequence in the code making your spark timing go haywire at inopportune moments that cause motors to randomly explode. While bugs are always possible in any code, the MS code goes from alpha, to beta, to release, and by the time it's in release it's solid. Does that mean perfect? Is any code perfect? Maybe not, but I've heard professional tuners argue that the MS code is more solid than other systems, that you won't see me or my team going around pooing on in the name of self-promotion, we do what we do, and do it well. They do what they do, and it works well too. Cool. But any idea of being afraid of MegaSquirt because it's affordable is just hogwash. Or disliking it because a tuner had a bad experience (more on this in a minute). I can list just as many tuners that love MS and will tell you it's just as good as any other EMS out there. We've have a world record on the salt flats, running on some of our oldest hardware. We have wins in club racing (enduros even, talk about requiring consistency and being abusive), in drag racing, etc, etc. The system is solid. The implementation, well, that's up to the user or installer, and with possibly more systems out there than any other EMS, often installed by DIYers, sure there has been room for error in the install department. But properly installed, rock solid. I think any idea of weakness in the MS comes from the implementation rather than the design. I tune commercially here at my shop on a DynaPack 4000 from time to time, core purpose of the dyno is R&D, but we do some commercial tuning too. I've seen professionally installed systems come in rock solid, and I've seen 'professionally' installed systems in need of help, with rough wiring and miswiring. I've seen DIY installed setups come in clean, and I've seen DIY setups come in with grounds to rusty body panels and wire nuts holding things together. MegaSquirt is so massively flexible that it allows you to use an huge list of factory components, ignition trigger wheels, ignitors, coils, etc. Different components require different settings to support them. This requires some knowledge and willingness to do a bit of research to set things up right for your vehicle if you're blazing a new trail. It gives you the flexibility to set the system up for just about any car on the road, and it gives you the flexibility to burn your ignitor up with the output settings inverted, or too much dwell. But you did that, not the MS, it gave you the power to succeed or fail, and most succeed. If a tuner has seen an improperly setup system come in and fail on their dyno, I can understand why they'd be shy. But when you've seen 249mph land speed cars, 10sec flat drag cars, and multiple front of the pack club racers running these systems consistently, and when you've tuned well over a hundred cars and never had some 'random unexplained timing grenade incident', you don't question, you know. This system is rock solid when properly installed and tuned. And would any system be rock solid if it wasn't? Jerry a.k.a. 'FoundSoul' www.diyautotune.com

11-17-2009, 02:59 PM	#27
CPR Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Right of the Wrong Posts: 3,292	Jerry, The only downfall with the MS kit is the two KEY components missing that all the other kits have. BEER AND HOOKERS Include these and yours will most definitely be included On a serious note, +1 on the "who is doing the tuning"......I am going through this myself with a different kit. And what was fool proof was not so fool proof.....or maybe it was the fool that was proofing (myself included in that statement). __________________ Originally Posted by ehall "This is the tech board. You should have just said that your tech problem was that you are a big dumbass. Then we could have helped you troubleshoot the way you screwed up a perfectly good turbo!" <-----------------Originally Posted by Black Jack "I am not a dog. I am a black helicopter. I run a FEMA camp. Nothing to see here....move along."

11-17-2009, 03:11 PM	#28
FoundSoul User Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 7	Can't help with the hookers, but come on down to the shop one night and we can have a beer and a stogie... do that every week or two here with a small group. Last edited by FoundSoul; 11-17-2009 at 04:01 PM.

11-17-2009, 10:56 PM	#29
schip43 User Join Date: May 2009 Location: Carson City NV Posts: 208	FoundSoul Mega Squirt DIY Kit for the 951 with Ford EDIS( ditch the speed referencing sensors) and the ability to use the KLK to control Knock? Is that to much to ask for?

11-17-2009, 11:35 PM	#30
flosho Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Eau Claire, WI Posts: 499	Negative on the FORD edis.. You'll want MS to control the spark via a 36-1 trigger wheel. That we we can use launch control/flat shift. EDIS doesn't do full spark cut. __________________ Jason Flora Meet Your Destiny 1981 924 Turbo - EFI conversion, Turbo Twists, and Flaires coming next 1985 BMW 323i - Euro, stripped, bottle caps, auto-x, co driven.