danny951

So.... beating a dead horse here, but.. was looking around at some of the more recent offerings for bolt-on performance. I have a 3" exhaust, Tial 38 and crappy chips that practically spew gas all over the place (rich).

- Looked at LR's new(ish) Quad-M MAF kit with the built-in piggyback... on sale right now for like $700. Dave says I can keep my existing chips and just tune from there with the software provided.

- Russel has his chips and multi-chip board that ranges from $300 - $500 and claims 304whp/345tq with a setup similar to mine (correction - K26/8) .. I find this hard to believe, but that would be a great price/performance boost. If I could get those numbers for $300, I'd about roll on the floor with excitement and be done with looking up other mods.

- Vitesse has his pricey MAF kit $1250 and that's without a piggy back. Claims to be TRUE MAF code, yet still requires a piggy back to get it spot on.. I find that odd, but I don't fully understand the process, so whatever. Perhaps this is the best option if I'm looking at further upgrades such as a larger turbo with bigger injectors, etc..

Right now I'm on a budget -- I've got way too many hobbies that require money so I have to do what I can with a little money at a time.

- Targets: 305whp/345tq - Let's just put it there since that is what Russel's site claims.

- Budget - $1000. I figure this type of stuff I can install myself, so that is price for parts --- and all part necessary that I don't already have

- Questions: Is Vitesse the only game in town that has a "True MAF" code? Should I be concerned with that for my target and if I don't plan to upgrade turbos (update or if I just go to something like a K27)?

(I should note that I need to figure out my boost situation. I have a lousy accuboost that for some reason has decided I don't need 18psi like I was getting before... now I get 15-17psi.. and it varies based on RPM, whereas it used to be rock solid at 18psi. I think either my wastegate isn't hooked up right or my accuboost is messed up).

Sorry to rehash a bunch of old posts.. this is a frequent topic here, I'm well aware. I've been driving the car 5 years and last few years I haven't spent much time on the forum, so things have changed since I've last researched this stuff.

/rambling done... sorry - not gettng much sleep lately

choinga

My Vitesse MAF was really close without PB tuning - but the PB does allow you to really dial it in.

The software basically allows you to add/remove fuel at various 'blocks' along the power curve...if you are running a little rich at idle, stick a -1 or -2 in the cell the car idles at and viola! - you're at 14.7. It also lets you record a run and then go back and 'watch' it and tune that way. The software is pretty easy - even if you are a newb tuner. (He's got new stuff now that looks even easier)

I still need to tune on the open road as I know I'm a little rich in spots (and probably on purpose as every chip maker is going to default to a little rich), but I'd highly recommend the PB if you are going with the MAF - maybe post and ask if someone is selling something used? I thought I saw one on here recently...but these go fast when they come up.

Good luck!

m73m95

PLEASE wait a few weeks before you pull the trigger on buying a MAF setup. What you're looking for is coming very soon!!

pole position

But your sig gives it away.......yes some nice engineered product coming with no snake oil sales pitch "when they are gone they are gone"lol.

onspeed

Should be interesting to see some comparisons.

As for the OP, you aren't going to get 300 rwhp without a turbo which can maintain a higher boost pressure. Dyno charts usually show k26/6 maxxing ~250rwhp. So it doesn't matter what MAF system or tune you get.

The nice thing with the "true MAF" systems is the adaptability they get from because able to read the exact amount of air going into the engine and also read boost levels with a MAP. These enable you to have an overboost protection, be able to change boost levels on the fly without risking a rich/lean mixture. The regular systems however merely convert the voltage (or possibly resistance?) from the MAF to the corresponding level the AFM would have registered for a certain amount of air flow meaning the restrictions of the AFM code are still in place. Restrictions being that the tune is not adaptive to boost levels since there's no MAP sensor. Instead, the AFR and timing is tweaked for a specific boost level and upping or lowering the boost will consequently cause issues with running too rich, lean, and/or knocking.

I don't think there would be a noticeable power difference if you had a specific setup fine tuned with a regular MAF>AFM conversion code vs a "true MAF" tune. The vendors of those systems might argue with me on this, but until I see a dyno chart which shows otherwise, I'll have my doubts.

This is the info I've managed to gather based on lots and lots of searching regarding 944 MAF conversions and some emails to a vendor.

m73m95

My sig doesn't give too much away.... True MAF code...yes. What Rogue will be offering...no. Prices...no.

There has been no official announcement yet. Rogue_Ant is now an RL sponsor, so it should be fairly soon.... I know he's just finishing up a few details.

There is quite a bit of "word of mouth" advertising already happening, and there have been several posts where Rogue has given hints, or straight up information about what he is doing...Just nothing official yet. Stay tuned.

fast951

The Vitesse software is TRUE/GENUINE MAF code. In addition to having TRUE MAF software, we offer many features like the semi-batch mode to handle large injectors. We run 83# and 95# injectors with 3bar fuel pressure with factory like idle, and PT. The stock batch software requires injectors duty cycle so low that the injectors are no longer controllable. Well the Vitesse software takes care of it. While some opt to run the much slower reacting hi impedance injectors to get around this problem, we rewrote the software to handle it the correct way and to keep using the correct type of injectors which match the injectors driver in the DME.
We introduced the boost based ignition and we went a step further by adding built-in safety. Since the MAP sensor is a key sensor in determining ignition, we wrote fail-safe code which we trigger in case the MAP sensor is damaged disconnected or the boost hose is off or damaged.

No one can get you 100% on target tuning wise to match your car remotely. There is no way to tell how your boost curve looks like. You can hit 15psi at 3000rpm or 4500rpm! So we program the software to error on the rich and boost friendly side when you go to Wide Open Throttle. In case you have a laggy turbo and your turbo doesn't wake up till 4000rpm, you do not want to be running "boost friendly AFRs" when your car is not making boost. Also if you have a ultra fast spooling turbo, you may need to richen or lean the AFRs accordingly.
We can get you very close on target, however to be 100% we suggest using a PB to dial in your AFRs to match your car 100%. The PB is optional; it offers many features beside tuning your AFRs.
We have numerous customers running (street and track) without the PB.

When comparing systems, it's best to look at all the features. What you don't need today, may become a necessity when the upgrade bug hits.

Hope I answered your questions regarding the Vitesse MAF.

pole position

LOL, I knew this was coming.............predictable as usual.

m73m95

Indeed.... But don't forget about price too!!

fast951

Of course. But it cannot be the only factor!

danny951

Yes, 305/345 is way beyond what I expect just chips to do (and I realize now that Russel's dyno with those numbers were from an 89 K26/8. Anyway... I do mostly understand the differences, but it's a question of what is realistic here. I am not going to be shooting for 450/500 HP with my daily driver. I'm looking for a modest gain here with similar driveability. The AFM system that Porsche used has been working fairly well for me. Yes it has limitations, but it works. Changing to a MAF that converts to an AFM has been working for 951 owners for years. And now that everything has gone digital, we don't have the same fight we had with the Arc-2 type fuel controllers (cringe). I'm never going to run 93# injectors, so I don't need a semi-batch mode. No offense to John, you have a great product no doubt, but I think it's probably more than I need, and for sure out of my budget ($1000), especially with the PB. Perhaps a used deal will come, but not holding my breath. I want to maximize the K26/6 and have options for a moderate (K27 or something) turbo upgrade down the road if / when it ever blows up on me. I've got the exhaust part done, time for intake. Better flow with less restriction (no barn door) is my goal. If that gets me 275whp and equal or better torque for under a grand, I'm a happy man. Cheap? Fast? Reliable? Can't be done.. but I'm after Reasonable. Quick. Reliable.

toddk911

+1

danny951

Does this have something to do with ostrich? I feel so out of the loop these days... What the heck is ostrich?

I got some reading to do.....

fast951

If you plan on keeping the K26 and your AFM is fine and you are not after "every last bit", get a chip and spend your money on something you really need.

choinga

you're welcome to swing down and drive my car - Vitesse MAF + Stage 2 Turbo. It doesn't mess around...

John: What's my commission structure?