George D

Hey Tom,

We worked on the design together in my garage, but Mario did the work. I'll draw a diagram when I get a few minutes. It's a fairly simple solution. The turbo oil drain was designed by Sean Martinez when he interned with TIAL during ME school, so things are slightly different than the stock turbo mount.

The excessive crankcase pressure also pushed out the balance shaft housing gasket, so that's being done now. We didn't want to do any work on the oil seepage areas until we had the crankcase pressure issue resolved.

The car has only had a few boost runs with this mod, but had no crankcase pressure, and the line to the intake from the catch can has also been removed. Only wanted fresh air going in, and are using the line from the cam housing connected to the AOS to drain back into the pan.

George

George D

AOS inlet. Working on a quick hand drawing to show exactly what we did. When we were figuring this out in my garage with Mario, and after his expert input, made complete sense. Didn't want to share with you guys till we knew it worked as we thought it should.

George D

Drawing later, have dinner guests on way.

Turbo drain - bottom of oil sump. Mario would prefer it be high in sump and below windage tray but ok because it's a ball bearing turbo.

Valve cover line connected to AOS inlet (used to be motor mount vent TIAL piece)

AOS outlet drilled to 1/2".

AOS outlet to catch can. Catch can to K&N breather.

Crankicase vent between air filter and turbo is now capped to stop oil vapors from going into intake.

(This car is registered in Apache County, Greer AZ. NO EMISSIONS TESTING there!!) Stated this in case someone comments on this being capped won't pass emissions.

URG8RB8

Sounds like what I am going to do short of the custom turbo drain, looking forward to the drawings.

George D

Pick of TIAL's engine brace/Garrett oil drain next to the factory piece prior to removal/install. Neat piece, and allows easy V-Band install of Garrett turbos on our cars.

URG8RB8

Yes, I have one of those coming too! But the rest of that engine not ready yet. Hopefully by the end of the year. Going to install the PT-5858 billet DBB for the time being until Frankenmotor is completed.

URG8RB8

Found some pics of how my new one will be mounted with the drain and oil feed line. Have not talked to him about how this will tie into the AOS. Cross that bridge when I get there.

marcoturbo

Interesting but maybe over engineered for most of us.

I wonder if venting through the oïl filler cap or through the dipstick tube is safer than using the cam cover to avoid pertubating the flow and sucking too much oïl (I'll check when I get my 1/32" restrictor but without any restriction, the PCV sucks too much oil)

Ther're some vented oïl dipstick tubes for EVOs, maybe some sellers could make one for our cars...
http://www.streettunedmotorsports.co...d_dipstick.htm

Removing the dipstick to put a gromett in the tube with a hose running a PCV inline to a vacuum source should be easy and cheap.

BTW, I've found a page from a guy who had checked the crankcase pressure on a stock car (so with the original AFM and J boot) and he was only seeing vacuum when boosting. The max vacuum at WOT was 100mBar (0.1 bar).

Tom M'Guinn

My first thought was to add a port to the dipstick tube, but I'm not sure it would flow enough air with the dip stick in place. My car seems to blow the stick up, but with the stick as an obstruction in the fairly small tube, I still get air trying to get out at the base of the tube. Maybe if the port were low enough on the tube it would flow more -- somebody should try it.

Tom M'Guinn

Vent between air filter and turbo? Do you mean the original hose that runs from the top of the AOS to the J-boot? If so, and if you are venting the crank to atmosphere, then have you done anything to replace the scavenging effect/vacuum supplied by the J-boot connection? You want whatever scavenging effect you can get....

George D

We did try this, and still saw pressure. I also didn't want to have to disconnect anything to then check the oil level.

Since the valve cover line goes directly into the pan, this, in our opinion, is fine and worked. Garrity used a T connecter at the cam cover from the AOS then to the catch can, then intake pipe. Not good if the catch can ever filled during hard running, track days, etc. The catch can would catch the oil/vapors, but had to be emptied too often. We felt the cam cover was the best place to vent since the oil is going directly back into the pan.

We first used a plastic container with the cam vent line secured on the bottle. After numerous 20psi runs, there was less than an oz of oil in the bottle. The bottle was vented at the top with a few holes, so the flow was similar to being dumped into the pan. I think because of the length of the vent line from the cam cover, the normal excessive oil that is usually seen doesn't flow with enough pressure from the cam housing to the oil pan.

Once done, I'll take some photo's. Trust I'll share if we find this isn't the remedy we think it is over time.

G

George D

We have a very similar setup...looks just like mine You'll love the response of these turbos! Very nice fittings, clean work.

George D

Looks very similar. Are you using the TIAL HTA wheels? Your cold side is different than my SS TIAL.

I'm not sure what the "real" difference is between the HTA vs GTX wheels are but here's a post from FP: The GTX is a carry over from OEM applications where noise control is very very important. While it is a newer aero package, it does make sacrifices to be a quiet as it is. Typically all full blade designs are used for targeting a narrow band of operating conditions on a compressor map, and we initially investigated doing this as well in 2005 when we began our design proccess for the HTA wheel aero package. Ultimately we abandonded it due to the limitations that the full blade style puts on the width of the operating map. The HTA (actually HTA15) surpasses the performance of the full blade variants on both the surge and choke flow ends of the compressor map, oddly enough these are the exact 2 regions of the map that most people operate in without even knowing it and this is why the HTA outperforms the GTX when compared head to head with matching inducer diameters. In my trip the the MHI turbocharger research laboratories in Nagasaki in the summer of 2011 I was introduced first hand to the extreme effort these OEM put into noise control for aero on compressor wheels, it is their number 1 concern - this shocked me. They do not focus on 5:1 pressure ratios, they dont focus on surge line compressor efficiency, they dont focus on flat RPM lines and wide maps - they want the turbo to be quiet - end of story. Mercedes doesnt want to buy loud turbochargers.

The GTX is not a blank page design for high power small engines, it is something Garrett already created for an Motor Company and it was billet, so it fit the marcket needs. For example it does not take the blade thickness down to the minimum, it places a higher priority on million mile powertrain warranty performance. Ever had a race car that ran for a million miles on the same turbocharger?

The HTA was designed as a blank page effort targeting ONLY high pressure ratio efficiency (5:1), surge line efficiency, and flat RPM lines thru as much of the map as possible. To this day we do a steady stream of GTX conversions to HTA, if you know anyone that needs any pull-off GTX wheels, give me a ring.

*FP does a fairly cheap upgrade to the HTA wheels. Maybe you have them, with the standard factory Garrett cold side?

Either way, killer turbos!

G

George D

I think it's important to know that Forced Performance is TIAL's retailer, and the HTA wheels were designed by TIAL with full knowledge and support from Garrett. TIAL honors and supports their reseller agreements. Their business model is R&D, design, etc. then allowing their retailers to support the public with great products.

marcoturbo

That's why I thought to remove the dipstick itself and vent the crankcase from the top of the tube.