FVD MAF Kit on the 964
12-03-2021, 10:18 PM
#76
mine if configured for a LWF and my LWF won’t be installed till later this month so bit premature but startup idle is poor and hoping because missing the LWF. Once warmed up idle is much better. Power delivery is for sure up and very smooth. Much more responsive. Demands Driving with higher RPM’s. I like it but unfinished. My exhaust consists of a 200 cell can and a cup pipe.
12-06-2021, 07:01 PM
#77
Three Wheelin'
Hope you've been able to build up something fun and fast!
RK
02-07-2022, 12:10 PM
#78
Rennlist Member
I recently installed FVD's MAF Street kit and wanted to provide my unbiased and first-hand experience (which is still subject to change based upon my interactions with FVD and continued experimentation). For reference, my car has a LWFW and a cat bypass (with O2 sensor). I have been using a Steve Wong chip for the better part of a year (tuned for 93 octane) with zero issues. I was happy to install the MAF if for no other reason than saving a couple of pounds off the rear of the car. If it added better throttle response and performance, that would be welcome as well. The parts are nice and it was a straightforward swap. I had FVD tune my chip for 93 octane, LWFW, and a cat bypass.
Whether it's important or not to point out, it has been in the 20-40 *F range where I live for the past several weeks and my car is garage-kept and I drive it ~100 miles every weekend. Also, my ISV and throttle position switch (for idle and WOT) are very clean and confirmed to be working appropriately. My throttle cable is also correctly adjusted.
After installing the MAF kit, the car never started on first try when it was cold. When warm, it would fire right up. Upon cold start (after the second try), it would idle very low, to the point where I felt the need to keep my foot on the gas for a minute or so until it would surge between 800 and 2000 or so RPM. Once the car warmed up, idle would stabilize to around 900 or so RPM and it was pretty solid.
My driving impressions were that the car drove well and felt good. However, I did not drive very much or very aggressively as I noticed audible pinging in the 2000-4000 rpm range under high load. Out of concern for engine damage, I swapped back to the AFM / SW chip set up until I hear back from FVD. I'm concerned that the chip is either tuned for too high of octane or the 93 octane I've been getting locally isn't really 93, and that the car likely needs an octane booster to run this set up effectively.
FVD is working with me and no complaints with respect to customer service so far. We'll see what happens.
Whether it's important or not to point out, it has been in the 20-40 *F range where I live for the past several weeks and my car is garage-kept and I drive it ~100 miles every weekend. Also, my ISV and throttle position switch (for idle and WOT) are very clean and confirmed to be working appropriately. My throttle cable is also correctly adjusted.
After installing the MAF kit, the car never started on first try when it was cold. When warm, it would fire right up. Upon cold start (after the second try), it would idle very low, to the point where I felt the need to keep my foot on the gas for a minute or so until it would surge between 800 and 2000 or so RPM. Once the car warmed up, idle would stabilize to around 900 or so RPM and it was pretty solid.
My driving impressions were that the car drove well and felt good. However, I did not drive very much or very aggressively as I noticed audible pinging in the 2000-4000 rpm range under high load. Out of concern for engine damage, I swapped back to the AFM / SW chip set up until I hear back from FVD. I'm concerned that the chip is either tuned for too high of octane or the 93 octane I've been getting locally isn't really 93, and that the car likely needs an octane booster to run this set up effectively.
FVD is working with me and no complaints with respect to customer service so far. We'll see what happens.
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JP-"S" (02-07-2022)
02-07-2022, 11:30 PM
#79
Rennlist Member
I recently installed FVD's MAF Street kit and wanted to provide my unbiased and first-hand experience (which is still subject to change based upon my interactions with FVD and continued experimentation). For reference, my car has a LWFW and a cat bypass (with O2 sensor). I have been using a Steve Wong chip for the better part of a year (tuned for 93 octane) with zero issues. I was happy to install the MAF if for no other reason than saving a couple of pounds off the rear of the car. If it added better throttle response and performance, that would be welcome as well. The parts are nice and it was a straightforward swap. I had FVD tune my chip for 93 octane, LWFW, and a cat bypass.
Whether it's important or not to point out, it has been in the 20-40 *F range where I live for the past several weeks and my car is garage-kept and I drive it ~100 miles every weekend. Also, my ISV and throttle position switch (for idle and WOT) are very clean and confirmed to be working appropriately. My throttle cable is also correctly adjusted.
After installing the MAF kit, the car never started on first try when it was cold. When warm, it would fire right up. Upon cold start (after the second try), it would idle very low, to the point where I felt the need to keep my foot on the gas for a minute or so until it would surge between 800 and 2000 or so RPM. Once the car warmed up, idle would stabilize to around 900 or so RPM and it was pretty solid.
My driving impressions were that the car drove well and felt good. However, I did not drive very much or very aggressively as I noticed audible pinging in the 2000-4000 rpm range under high load. Out of concern for engine damage, I swapped back to the AFM / SW chip set up until I hear back from FVD. I'm concerned that the chip is either tuned for too high of octane or the 93 octane I've been getting locally isn't really 93, and that the car likely needs an octane booster to run this set up effectively.
FVD is working with me and no complaints with respect to customer service so far. We'll see what happens.
Whether it's important or not to point out, it has been in the 20-40 *F range where I live for the past several weeks and my car is garage-kept and I drive it ~100 miles every weekend. Also, my ISV and throttle position switch (for idle and WOT) are very clean and confirmed to be working appropriately. My throttle cable is also correctly adjusted.
After installing the MAF kit, the car never started on first try when it was cold. When warm, it would fire right up. Upon cold start (after the second try), it would idle very low, to the point where I felt the need to keep my foot on the gas for a minute or so until it would surge between 800 and 2000 or so RPM. Once the car warmed up, idle would stabilize to around 900 or so RPM and it was pretty solid.
My driving impressions were that the car drove well and felt good. However, I did not drive very much or very aggressively as I noticed audible pinging in the 2000-4000 rpm range under high load. Out of concern for engine damage, I swapped back to the AFM / SW chip set up until I hear back from FVD. I'm concerned that the chip is either tuned for too high of octane or the 93 octane I've been getting locally isn't really 93, and that the car likely needs an octane booster to run this set up effectively.
FVD is working with me and no complaints with respect to customer service so far. We'll see what happens.
02-08-2022, 07:54 AM
#80
I recently installed FVD's MAF Street kit and wanted to provide my unbiased and first-hand experience (which is still subject to change based upon my interactions with FVD and continued experimentation). For reference, my car has a LWFW and a cat bypass (with O2 sensor). I have been using a Steve Wong chip for the better part of a year (tuned for 93 octane) with zero issues. I was happy to install the MAF if for no other reason than saving a couple of pounds off the rear of the car. If it added better throttle response and performance, that would be welcome as well. The parts are nice and it was a straightforward swap. I had FVD tune my chip for 93 octane, LWFW, and a cat bypass.
Whether it's important or not to point out, it has been in the 20-40 *F range where I live for the past several weeks and my car is garage-kept and I drive it ~100 miles every weekend. Also, my ISV and throttle position switch (for idle and WOT) are very clean and confirmed to be working appropriately. My throttle cable is also correctly adjusted.
After installing the MAF kit, the car never started on first try when it was cold. When warm, it would fire right up. Upon cold start (after the second try), it would idle very low, to the point where I felt the need to keep my foot on the gas for a minute or so until it would surge between 800 and 2000 or so RPM. Once the car warmed up, idle would stabilize to around 900 or so RPM and it was pretty solid.
My driving impressions were that the car drove well and felt good. However, I did not drive very much or very aggressively as I noticed audible pinging in the 2000-4000 rpm range under high load. Out of concern for engine damage, I swapped back to the AFM / SW chip set up until I hear back from FVD. I'm concerned that the chip is either tuned for too high of octane or the 93 octane I've been getting locally isn't really 93, and that the car likely needs an octane booster to run this set up effectively.
FVD is working with me and no complaints with respect to customer service so far. We'll see what happens.
Whether it's important or not to point out, it has been in the 20-40 *F range where I live for the past several weeks and my car is garage-kept and I drive it ~100 miles every weekend. Also, my ISV and throttle position switch (for idle and WOT) are very clean and confirmed to be working appropriately. My throttle cable is also correctly adjusted.
After installing the MAF kit, the car never started on first try when it was cold. When warm, it would fire right up. Upon cold start (after the second try), it would idle very low, to the point where I felt the need to keep my foot on the gas for a minute or so until it would surge between 800 and 2000 or so RPM. Once the car warmed up, idle would stabilize to around 900 or so RPM and it was pretty solid.
My driving impressions were that the car drove well and felt good. However, I did not drive very much or very aggressively as I noticed audible pinging in the 2000-4000 rpm range under high load. Out of concern for engine damage, I swapped back to the AFM / SW chip set up until I hear back from FVD. I'm concerned that the chip is either tuned for too high of octane or the 93 octane I've been getting locally isn't really 93, and that the car likely needs an octane booster to run this set up effectively.
FVD is working with me and no complaints with respect to customer service so far. We'll see what happens.
02-08-2022, 07:11 PM
#81
I wanted to chime in with my bad, rather, terrible experience with the FVD MAF kit on my 964.
Sadly, I have spent quite a large sum of money diagnosing this car (only to find the only problem with my car was that it had the MAF kit installed) and lost several months of prime driving time.
The kit install itself is pretty straightforward and easy, and the BMC filter is nice.
The car will never start on the first try, and the idle is very low and choppy, and will also hunt depending on the temperature outside. It's so low, it has a tendency to frequently stall.
Drivability was also extraordinarily poor with hiccups in the tip-in, flat spots throughout the RPM range, and overall total power loss.
A MAF based calibration especially with stock injectors is not hard to do, and I suspect they have an incompetent calibrator flashing these EPROMs or simply not enough time testing this product thoroughly. It's quite simply a poorly made product and calibration. I figure with a standalone ECU this would be a easy car to dial in the calibration and have a MAF work nicely, but this is the OEM ECU we are talking about here and simply not the case.
After working with two different indy shops to diagnose what may be going on and then working with Steve Wong from 911chips, I bought and installed a new AFM, Airbox, and had a properly made chip done by Steve. The car runs so freaking well now and I'm really happy with the results.
FVD is not working with me to return or refund this kit due to length of time since the purchase (although I only have 500 miles or so on it). I was really hoping that they would make this experience feel whole but couldn't be farther from the reality. They pointed the finger at the mechanical and electrical on this car but the thing is that this is a brand new engine rebuild and has had extensive diagnostic works on the electrical system, with all new sensors throughout the majority of the car. It's completely operational with quality parts and labor put into it.
Stay away, run away, from this kit.
That is all.
Sadly, I have spent quite a large sum of money diagnosing this car (only to find the only problem with my car was that it had the MAF kit installed) and lost several months of prime driving time.
The kit install itself is pretty straightforward and easy, and the BMC filter is nice.
The car will never start on the first try, and the idle is very low and choppy, and will also hunt depending on the temperature outside. It's so low, it has a tendency to frequently stall.
Drivability was also extraordinarily poor with hiccups in the tip-in, flat spots throughout the RPM range, and overall total power loss.
A MAF based calibration especially with stock injectors is not hard to do, and I suspect they have an incompetent calibrator flashing these EPROMs or simply not enough time testing this product thoroughly. It's quite simply a poorly made product and calibration. I figure with a standalone ECU this would be a easy car to dial in the calibration and have a MAF work nicely, but this is the OEM ECU we are talking about here and simply not the case.
After working with two different indy shops to diagnose what may be going on and then working with Steve Wong from 911chips, I bought and installed a new AFM, Airbox, and had a properly made chip done by Steve. The car runs so freaking well now and I'm really happy with the results.
FVD is not working with me to return or refund this kit due to length of time since the purchase (although I only have 500 miles or so on it). I was really hoping that they would make this experience feel whole but couldn't be farther from the reality. They pointed the finger at the mechanical and electrical on this car but the thing is that this is a brand new engine rebuild and has had extensive diagnostic works on the electrical system, with all new sensors throughout the majority of the car. It's completely operational with quality parts and labor put into it.
Stay away, run away, from this kit.
That is all.
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BLACK3.2 (02-08-2022)
02-09-2022, 09:30 AM
#82
Burning Brakes
Very rarely have I heard anyone praise any of the MAF kits that are available, heard lots of disappointed stories...
I've no doubt that if setup correctly they make a great difference but that does not appear to happen often straight out the box and for what you get they're expensive!
Personally I'd rather spend a little extra and go with a plug and play ECU with MAP sensor and air temp sensor, as per the kits supplied by TE systems, Sharkwerks, Specialist components or SCS Delta.
I've no doubt that if setup correctly they make a great difference but that does not appear to happen often straight out the box and for what you get they're expensive!
Personally I'd rather spend a little extra and go with a plug and play ECU with MAP sensor and air temp sensor, as per the kits supplied by TE systems, Sharkwerks, Specialist components or SCS Delta.
02-09-2022, 11:52 AM
#84
I have posted several times on this forum that I have had an excellent experience with the Vitesse MAF kit:
http://www.vitesseracing.com/html/91..._air_flow.html
My barn door AFM was worn out and in need of a rebuild. I took a chance on the Vitesse kit because replacing the older AFM technology with newer MAF technology was appealing to me. I have been very pleased with it and have not had any of the issues commonly associated with the FVD kit, which have also been well documented on this forum.
http://www.vitesseracing.com/html/91..._air_flow.html
My barn door AFM was worn out and in need of a rebuild. I took a chance on the Vitesse kit because replacing the older AFM technology with newer MAF technology was appealing to me. I have been very pleased with it and have not had any of the issues commonly associated with the FVD kit, which have also been well documented on this forum.
02-09-2022, 12:03 PM
#85
If I had known the headache and costs associated with the FVD kit, I would have much rather have spent that money on a good proper standalone like above. Those look like much better options.
Either way, I'm back to the AFM and stock ECU and it runs fantastic, no point in changing it now. I'm sunk so deep in money and a poor experience on this that I'm done playing the modding game for a while.
Either way, I'm back to the AFM and stock ECU and it runs fantastic, no point in changing it now. I'm sunk so deep in money and a poor experience on this that I'm done playing the modding game for a while.
02-10-2022, 12:26 PM
#86
Instructor
No experience with them, but the specialist components system seems pretty interesting. I believe three of the replacement EFIs listed above (SCS Delta, Specialist Components, and Sharkwerks) are the same specialist components system.
02-10-2022, 01:01 PM
#87
Burning Brakes
I've reached out to most of them regarding the kits and had a good email exchange with John from Specialist Components, hopefully I'll be purchasing a kit in the near future.
The history behind the kits, they were originally designed by Specialist Components in the UK, but one of the partners left SC and setup SCS Delta, I believe that's when the kits were more widely marketed, which is where TE systems and Sharkwerks in the US come in.
Just to add, I've only heard good things about these kits and know a couple of guys that run them.
The addition of the MAP and temp sensor to the 964 is a revelation.
But they do require a dyno session to have them optimized for your own car.
Last edited by 964George; 02-10-2022 at 01:06 PM.
02-10-2022, 01:56 PM
#89
Three Wheelin'
The AFM “restriction” has been discussed for about 3 decades now, including in this thread. The “barn door” AFM is wide-open at full throttle. It isn’t restricting anything at WOT. The ignition map changes in these MAF kits are solely responsible for any power increase. The same can be accomplished with an aftermarket chip alone. Not to mention +30hp on a stock motor is a wee bit optimistic.
“Together with our chums at Test Systems & SCS we include all parts needed to remove the restrictive/heavy/old-fashioned air flow meter (barn door as its called). This change alone adds approximately 30hp”
The VEMS kit is probably the best value out there right now at ~$2k USD. I don’t see what this $4750 Sharkwerks kit does better other than including a set of injectors. Speeduino costs pennies, just requires 1-million hours of your time, or slightly more for Megasquirt + only 1,000 hours of your time
MAF kits still (in theory) improve the throttle. But it’s old tech at this point. With the price of stand-alone units, barring this Sharkwerks price tag, I don’t see any reason to opt for a MAF anymore.
“Together with our chums at Test Systems & SCS we include all parts needed to remove the restrictive/heavy/old-fashioned air flow meter (barn door as its called). This change alone adds approximately 30hp”
The VEMS kit is probably the best value out there right now at ~$2k USD. I don’t see what this $4750 Sharkwerks kit does better other than including a set of injectors. Speeduino costs pennies, just requires 1-million hours of your time, or slightly more for Megasquirt + only 1,000 hours of your time
MAF kits still (in theory) improve the throttle. But it’s old tech at this point. With the price of stand-alone units, barring this Sharkwerks price tag, I don’t see any reason to opt for a MAF anymore.
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964George (02-11-2022)
02-10-2022, 04:38 PM
#90
Instructor
FWIW, I generally agree with that. Not sure why, but the MAF kits are priced as high as the lower-end (in terms of price, not functionality) fully programmable ECU systems. That makes a MAF kit unattractive to me personally.
The AFM is likely somewhat restrictive as compared to a MAF though. The door is completely open, yes, but it’s a square passage with a smaller effective diameter than the MAF replacements. Seriously doubt that’s even close to 30hp but it’s not nothing.
AFM are getting expensive and harder to find though, and it’s good to have options. I just had my AFM apart this past weekend to do the “move the wiper arm” fix to improve the idle (worked well) and found, by testing with a meter, that the last resistor on mine has failed… i.e. once the AFM gets past ~90% the signal drops to zero. Clearly that’s good for around town driving but will want to fix or replace it this year.
The AFM is likely somewhat restrictive as compared to a MAF though. The door is completely open, yes, but it’s a square passage with a smaller effective diameter than the MAF replacements. Seriously doubt that’s even close to 30hp but it’s not nothing.
AFM are getting expensive and harder to find though, and it’s good to have options. I just had my AFM apart this past weekend to do the “move the wiper arm” fix to improve the idle (worked well) and found, by testing with a meter, that the last resistor on mine has failed… i.e. once the AFM gets past ~90% the signal drops to zero. Clearly that’s good for around town driving but will want to fix or replace it this year.