Steering rack madness, or...
02-05-2022, 09:59 PM
#1
Race Car
Thread Starter
Steering rack madness, or...
...How i learned to stop worrying and love the rack.
I'll have to start with multiple posts, since using the phone has been a disaster since seizing to store photos locally and now keeping them in the clouds...this app now wants to look through all my photos before allowing me to choose the ones i want...makes madnessing....maddening.
So what has happened. Why would i want or need a rack? Short answer is back in 2010, i took the car to limerock, and after a few sessions, there was fluid pouring out of the rack. So like any good sport, i threw in some Lucas stop leak, and called it a day, thinking that i would eventually get to it. Who needs power steering anyway???
Over the next 12 years, as the fluid kept leaving, i kept filling. I think the system possibly could be filled with chewing gum at this point.
Along the way, we had threads. Some of said threads mentioned the ratios of the various racks. I got it in my noodle to swap to a 993 rack for the slightly quicker ratio. Can't remember off hand the exact ratio...but it's almost 1 turn shorter...or thereabouts. Someone posted a list of the part numbers with the ratios of each, which got me all excited.
It was also noted at that time, that no 993 rack was ever going to be installed in a 964 C4, because someone said so, as did Porsche. But we have a friend on here that did it. So we know that's bunk.
Anyway, one day, on the ebays, i found a used 964 rack. And out went my dreams of a shorter ratio.
That rack is still in a box in my attic, having never gotten motivated to swap my rack for its twin brother, just to have the non-infirmed twin functioning without bladder issues under my front end. Cuz, who needs power steering anyway?
Truth be known, i like power steering in the 964, and can't stand the manual rack in these cars. Partly because of how they feel with all the caster.
Time has flown by...it's 12 years later.
12 years.
Twelve.
How?
Recently, a friend and fellow rennlister (i think possibly all of my friends at this point are rennlisters, as this madness stuff has consumed my soul), anyway, recently, this fellow found, quite possibly because i showed it to him, an entire front end out of a 993tt, which had a set of brakes he wanted...train stopping reds...i think he may have wanted other stuff as well, but somehow he let me buy the rack from the deal, and i now have my 993 rack! But which one is it and which ratio???
Did i mention 12 years have gone by? I was younger then. Idealistic. I cared. Things meant things to me. Stats mattered. Today? Notsumuch...it's a 993 rack. It should be a quicker ratio, it was out of a low miles car and hopefully doesn't leak, but it may leak. It may be great. It may suck. My hope? My hope would be that it would feel as quick steering as a formula ford. It won't be. But it'll be cool. And I'm sure that somewhere someone has posted the ratios.
Here is the thing. It's the only 993 rack i have. So in it goes, no matter what it is. And I'll feel what i feel.
What i haven't talked about- is the other madness - suspension madness 2.0 - where a bunch of new other stuff will go in. But for now, what I'm going to do is to install only the 993 rack with no other changes, so i can feel back to back one vs the other. I'd like to know if there is any real difference. It may just be subtle, and it may be worthless. I'll never be able to know first hand by listening to someone else's second or third hand comments.
So up it goes...
It was so cold out there this am, (Connecticut is cold at the moment), that the lube in my ratchets became so viscous that they weren't working. I placed a few on the heater to loosen them up. Working on a cold cement floor today was hell. Frozen over.
This is the leaking rack.
I had been thinking on the way in, that i would attempt to do this with a minimal intervention. Take out the old rack, throw in the new one...
But then, i see them. Torn. Again. These crappy gkn cv boots. They last for a year at best. I need to find better quality boots. I'm sick of repacking and rebooting cv joints. Terrible job.
So guess what...my minimal intervention, became take out my front axles,...which means just take everything out. So the job just changed dramatically....
I'll have to start with multiple posts, since using the phone has been a disaster since seizing to store photos locally and now keeping them in the clouds...this app now wants to look through all my photos before allowing me to choose the ones i want...makes madnessing....maddening.
So what has happened. Why would i want or need a rack? Short answer is back in 2010, i took the car to limerock, and after a few sessions, there was fluid pouring out of the rack. So like any good sport, i threw in some Lucas stop leak, and called it a day, thinking that i would eventually get to it. Who needs power steering anyway???
Over the next 12 years, as the fluid kept leaving, i kept filling. I think the system possibly could be filled with chewing gum at this point.
Along the way, we had threads. Some of said threads mentioned the ratios of the various racks. I got it in my noodle to swap to a 993 rack for the slightly quicker ratio. Can't remember off hand the exact ratio...but it's almost 1 turn shorter...or thereabouts. Someone posted a list of the part numbers with the ratios of each, which got me all excited.
It was also noted at that time, that no 993 rack was ever going to be installed in a 964 C4, because someone said so, as did Porsche. But we have a friend on here that did it. So we know that's bunk.
Anyway, one day, on the ebays, i found a used 964 rack. And out went my dreams of a shorter ratio.
That rack is still in a box in my attic, having never gotten motivated to swap my rack for its twin brother, just to have the non-infirmed twin functioning without bladder issues under my front end. Cuz, who needs power steering anyway?
Truth be known, i like power steering in the 964, and can't stand the manual rack in these cars. Partly because of how they feel with all the caster.
Time has flown by...it's 12 years later.
12 years.
Twelve.
How?
Recently, a friend and fellow rennlister (i think possibly all of my friends at this point are rennlisters, as this madness stuff has consumed my soul), anyway, recently, this fellow found, quite possibly because i showed it to him, an entire front end out of a 993tt, which had a set of brakes he wanted...train stopping reds...i think he may have wanted other stuff as well, but somehow he let me buy the rack from the deal, and i now have my 993 rack! But which one is it and which ratio???
Did i mention 12 years have gone by? I was younger then. Idealistic. I cared. Things meant things to me. Stats mattered. Today? Notsumuch...it's a 993 rack. It should be a quicker ratio, it was out of a low miles car and hopefully doesn't leak, but it may leak. It may be great. It may suck. My hope? My hope would be that it would feel as quick steering as a formula ford. It won't be. But it'll be cool. And I'm sure that somewhere someone has posted the ratios.
Here is the thing. It's the only 993 rack i have. So in it goes, no matter what it is. And I'll feel what i feel.
What i haven't talked about- is the other madness - suspension madness 2.0 - where a bunch of new other stuff will go in. But for now, what I'm going to do is to install only the 993 rack with no other changes, so i can feel back to back one vs the other. I'd like to know if there is any real difference. It may just be subtle, and it may be worthless. I'll never be able to know first hand by listening to someone else's second or third hand comments.
So up it goes...
It was so cold out there this am, (Connecticut is cold at the moment), that the lube in my ratchets became so viscous that they weren't working. I placed a few on the heater to loosen them up. Working on a cold cement floor today was hell. Frozen over.
This is the leaking rack.
I had been thinking on the way in, that i would attempt to do this with a minimal intervention. Take out the old rack, throw in the new one...
But then, i see them. Torn. Again. These crappy gkn cv boots. They last for a year at best. I need to find better quality boots. I'm sick of repacking and rebooting cv joints. Terrible job.
So guess what...my minimal intervention, became take out my front axles,...which means just take everything out. So the job just changed dramatically....
Last edited by Goughary; 02-05-2022 at 11:40 PM.
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sooner964 (02-05-2022)
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02-05-2022, 11:18 PM
Race Car
Thread Starter
How many of you caught the bad structural change in the formatting above?
Pictures go before the description or pictures go after the description...which is better??
Anyway, here is the final install. Proof positive that a 993 rack fits into the C4 964, even though nick did it years ago and we already knew...but we need a madness thread or it never happened.
This madness is not done. This is the first day. Next up i have to reboot the cv joints, clean things, reinstall, and then do the alignment.
And then drive.
Pictures go before the description or pictures go after the description...which is better??
Anyway, here is the final install. Proof positive that a 993 rack fits into the C4 964, even though nick did it years ago and we already knew...but we need a madness thread or it never happened.
This madness is not done. This is the first day. Next up i have to reboot the cv joints, clean things, reinstall, and then do the alignment.
And then drive.
02-05-2022, 10:33 PM
#2
Race Car
Thread Starter
So now that the whole thing has to come out, or rather, all
This stuff has to drop down...gotta crack the axle nuts.
Then once that is done. On my dirty car, we see the mess...wish it was warm out. Would have loved to have cleaned before doing this.
Side note, i picked up this sir tools dooddad, and it makes removal of the tie rods a snap.
And remember the step down washers for the bottom bolt of the kw? The ones they wouldn't supply while they denied over and over that it was an issue? The ones they started to supply again after we called them out here? Mine were never supplied by them. I got sick of hearing their refusals. I will never waste my money on that garbage product ever again. In fairness, i "like" them. I don't like them at the price point. I'd pay up a little and buy mcs, or pay up a lot and buy ohlin, or pay down a notch and buy pss10, which i like better at the lower end of the price range...for street use. But the kw don't do enough of what they need to do, well enough. They are over sprung for the settlings we would use for the street. And internally they aren't very high quality. Anyway, no need to get into a debate over kw here. For anyone needing more information...call someone that takes struts apart for a living and rebuilds them...that person can give you a detailed description of the internals and the differences btw good and bad.
For me...these are good enough until i blow one, and then I'll not rebuild. I'll go to mcs or ohlin.
But here is the bolt w the step down washers, which are a must if you install these on 964 uprights. So be sure that when the "shop" convinces you to buy these struts, that kw supplies the step down washers.
On to unbolting the inner cv from the flange...
And out it all came...same on the other side.
Last edited by Goughary; 02-05-2022 at 10:36 PM.
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heliolps2 (02-06-2022)
02-05-2022, 10:59 PM
#3
Race Car
Thread Starter
So now with the suspension out of the way, i can get to the hard part.
This is the rack that has to go in:
Hold the steering wheel...the new rack has to go in on center...
And now for the drop. The banjos are so dirty...gotta clean those. Don't want dirt going into the new rack.
The two racks compared. You can see there are real differences between the two racks. The 993 rack has a couple lines that make it impossible to install into the c4...truely...the diff is in the way.
Unless...you take out the cross member and install the rack and brace et al to the cross member first, and then install that whole assembly together....which if you are only one person on a frozen cement garage floor, after a day of teardown...is very hard to do. Make sure you have someone else there. I'll spare you the imagery of me twisted into a pretzel under the car, with the crossmember tied with twine to the differential, held partly in the air by a jack, precariously teetering, getting the u-joint to line up just right with the rack at dead center to match...make sure you have someone there to help...
This is the rack that has to go in:
Hold the steering wheel...the new rack has to go in on center...
And now for the drop. The banjos are so dirty...gotta clean those. Don't want dirt going into the new rack.
The two racks compared. You can see there are real differences between the two racks. The 993 rack has a couple lines that make it impossible to install into the c4...truely...the diff is in the way.
Unless...you take out the cross member and install the rack and brace et al to the cross member first, and then install that whole assembly together....which if you are only one person on a frozen cement garage floor, after a day of teardown...is very hard to do. Make sure you have someone else there. I'll spare you the imagery of me twisted into a pretzel under the car, with the crossmember tied with twine to the differential, held partly in the air by a jack, precariously teetering, getting the u-joint to line up just right with the rack at dead center to match...make sure you have someone there to help...
Last edited by Goughary; 02-05-2022 at 11:02 PM.
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02-05-2022, 11:18 PM
#4
Race Car
Thread Starter
How many of you caught the bad structural change in the formatting above?
Pictures go before the description or pictures go after the description...which is better??
Anyway, here is the final install. Proof positive that a 993 rack fits into the C4 964, even though nick did it years ago and we already knew...but we need a madness thread or it never happened.
Attachment 1327212
Attachment 1327211
This madness is not done. This is the first day. Next up i have to reboot the cv joints, clean things, reinstall, and then do the alignment.
And then drive.
Pictures go before the description or pictures go after the description...which is better??
Anyway, here is the final install. Proof positive that a 993 rack fits into the C4 964, even though nick did it years ago and we already knew...but we need a madness thread or it never happened.
Attachment 1327212
Attachment 1327211
This madness is not done. This is the first day. Next up i have to reboot the cv joints, clean things, reinstall, and then do the alignment.
And then drive.
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964Luftballoon (02-06-2022),
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Jaime_911 (02-11-2022),
and 6 others liked this post.
02-06-2022, 12:33 AM
#5
Rennlist Member
I don't even have a C4, but thank you for your VERY thorough install. As new owner to the 964 world, I will definitely read more of your threads.
02-06-2022, 08:53 AM
#6
Love your 'madness' threads. 
02-06-2022, 08:54 AM
#7
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964Luftballoon (02-06-2022)
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02-06-2022, 01:14 PM
#9
Rennlist Member
02-06-2022, 02:35 PM
#10
Rob
Another amazing thread per usual. All of them inspiring any 964 owner that working on our cars is just that simple. Speaking of Axle boots. I need help next time your down here. Hahah I kid I kid.
Looking forward to hear the results of the change
Another amazing thread per usual. All of them inspiring any 964 owner that working on our cars is just that simple. Speaking of Axle boots. I need help next time your down here. Hahah I kid I kid.
Looking forward to hear the results of the change
02-06-2022, 02:38 PM
#11
Race Car
Thread Starter
Ryan, you get the axles out, and I'll pop over and rebuild them/give you a hand...
I'm down there in April, and then twice in may. I might be driving down middle May for a race at Eagles Canyon the weekend of the 15th...thinking i may just toss the transaxle, diff and torque tube in where the the passenger seat wont be...and bringing it all back...fun reason for a road trip...
I'm down there in April, and then twice in may. I might be driving down middle May for a race at Eagles Canyon the weekend of the 15th...thinking i may just toss the transaxle, diff and torque tube in where the the passenger seat wont be...and bringing it all back...fun reason for a road trip...
Last edited by Goughary; 02-06-2022 at 02:39 PM.
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964Luftballoon (02-06-2022)
02-06-2022, 02:46 PM
#12
Race Car
Thread Starter
Speaking of axles... this is today's project...Before rebuild.
Ugly job, but since these boots are going to tear in a year anyway, it'll do!
One more to go, and then it's on to cleaning hardware, and then??? Can i reassemble yet?
Also, i came out to the garage to a huge puddle of power steering fluid at the rear of the car. I over filled the reservoir last night since i was in a rush at the end of the day to charge the system. I cleaned that up, so I'm assuming this further spill is residual. But who knows. So easy to have a leak in old lines.
Side note- in one of those pics you see the snap ring pliers w the red handles. They are Icon brand by harbor freight. I was going to buy a set of knipex snap pliers, but i had a gift card from hf (thanks mom)...and i bought myself a daytona low long reach jack, and threw in the set of icon snap ring pliers. They are not bad, particularly for the price point. As i destroy them I'll replace the individuals w knipex, but for a first dive in....these are great.
Ugly job, but since these boots are going to tear in a year anyway, it'll do!
One more to go, and then it's on to cleaning hardware, and then??? Can i reassemble yet?
Also, i came out to the garage to a huge puddle of power steering fluid at the rear of the car. I over filled the reservoir last night since i was in a rush at the end of the day to charge the system. I cleaned that up, so I'm assuming this further spill is residual. But who knows. So easy to have a leak in old lines.
Side note- in one of those pics you see the snap ring pliers w the red handles. They are Icon brand by harbor freight. I was going to buy a set of knipex snap pliers, but i had a gift card from hf (thanks mom)...and i bought myself a daytona low long reach jack, and threw in the set of icon snap ring pliers. They are not bad, particularly for the price point. As i destroy them I'll replace the individuals w knipex, but for a first dive in....these are great.
Last edited by Goughary; 02-06-2022 at 02:50 PM.
02-06-2022, 03:48 PM
#13
Rennlist Member
Love a Goughary/DBFD madness thread. Last year I found out that my rack was leaking very badly. Of course, this was 2 weeks before I was moving from GA to VA. Ended up buying a refurb rack from Advantage Steering - it's been great so far. Curious to hear what you think about the 993 rack!
02-06-2022, 04:20 PM
#14
Three Wheelin'
Rob - This thread is one that twelve years ago would have required a subject line: WARNING: picture heavy. Lest the dialups be strained. Okay I'm playing fast and loose with innernet history but you get it...
Awesome work. Looking forward to a drive soon.
Awesome work. Looking forward to a drive soon.
02-06-2022, 05:39 PM
#15
Race Car
Thread Starter
In the mid nineties i was doing graphic design and product design on a Mac 5300 PowerBook, with i think, a 13 inch screen...maybe 11...and it was soooooo awesome that year when i got my 28.8 modem...and then right after i shelled out waaaaaaay too much money for that 28.8 modem, not to mention the cost of that terrible PowerBook...the 36.6 modems came out...and we were dreaming about 72...
I was living in Italy back then...and this stuff cost huge money there at that time. Don't get me started on the cell phones...phones in the states were subsidized...so for 100 dollars you could have the latest greatest Motorola...for us the startac was 1.2mm lire...which equated to roughly 600 dollars depending on the day...but to a normal person it felt like a few months income...and it was.
But man...those internet speeds. Crazy to think we pioneered the internet with such limited transfer speed.
I was living in Italy back then...and this stuff cost huge money there at that time. Don't get me started on the cell phones...phones in the states were subsidized...so for 100 dollars you could have the latest greatest Motorola...for us the startac was 1.2mm lire...which equated to roughly 600 dollars depending on the day...but to a normal person it felt like a few months income...and it was.
But man...those internet speeds. Crazy to think we pioneered the internet with such limited transfer speed.