When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
I've had my E46 M3 for ages and I've built it to such great extent - Curious to hear if anyone has made the switch from an E46 M3 to a 964? How did you like it and did you miss anything about the E46 M? I am potentially looking to unload and/or sell mine to make some space for a new stablemate for my other 911, and a 964 is a chassis I've been lusting over for some time now.
Thanks in advance... here are some photos of my E46.
That’s a great looking car, I had one for several years, built up as I progressed on track. At the end, it had a fresh engine built with 280/272 cams, a 3.91 diff, PFC brakes, Ohlins Dedicated coilovers, custom rear seat delete and welded roll bar, full Supersprint exhaust with an Epic tune, and more. ~350 or more whp. Basically nothing left untouched. It was so well set up and so easy to control when on or slightly over the edge of grip that it felt like easy mode. Maybe sounds weird, but it actually got a little boring because it was so capable and predictable.
However, my dream was always an air cooled 911, with a 964 being the Ultimate. As the M3 moved to be more track focused, I fell into an 911SC as a fun car. Driving that SC was eye opening. The sensory feedback was unreal, unlike anything I had driven before. The manual steering, the 915 and cable clutch. I could feel everything. It was much slower than my M3 but so much more FUN. If it was this much fun on the road, imagine what it could be on track, I thought. I knew I needed a track 911.
Luckily, I managed to find a 964 track car Dan Jacobs was selling around that time. It was exactly what I was looking for - a modified DE car with a short Club Racing stint that still had full interior and could be street driven. The engine was recently rebuilt before I got it and it pulls hard. I did my first track day with it two weeks after I got it and had a blast. Other than needing to upgrade the brakes, I haven’t had a single issue with it.
I tracked it for a year and a half while also driving it several times a week. Right as the pandemic hit, I decided to stop tracking it because it meant so much to me, and prices were getting so insane that replacing it would be near impossible.
I sold the M3 within a couple months of getting the 964 and haven’t regretted it once. I wouldn’t mind still having it due to the memories or tracking and building it, but if offered it back, I’d probably pass. I sold the SC soon after that because who needs two air cooled 911s? I regret selling that one much more.
BTW, I picked up a 996 GT3 last year to replace the 964 as my track car. It is like a great melding of the 964 and M3. The 964 has better feedback and classic feel, but the engine and suspension in the GT3 is so good. (Both my 964 and GT3 have MCS coilovers). Edit: just noticed you have a GT3 RS, so you know how good these are. I’ll add that I think the 964 and GT3 are great compliments and satisfy different itches. I’ve lost almost all desire for other cars with these two. I do wonder about a 997 RS though…
That’s a great looking car, I had one for several years, built up as I progressed on track. At the end, it had a fresh engine built with 280/272 cams, a 3.91 diff, PFC brakes, Ohlins Dedicated coilovers, custom rear seat delete and welded roll bar, full Supersprint exhaust with an Epic tune, and more. ~350 or more whp. Basically nothing left untouched. It was so well set up and so easy to control when on or slightly over the edge of grip that it felt like easy mode. Maybe sounds weird, but it actually got a little boring because it was so capable and predictable.
However, my dream was always an air cooled 911, with a 964 being the Ultimate. As the M3 moved to be more track focused, I fell into an 911SC as a fun car. Driving that SC was eye opening. The sensory feedback was unreal, unlike anything I had driven before. The manual steering, the 915 and cable clutch. I could feel everything. It was much slower than my M3 but so much more FUN. If it was this much fun on the road, imagine what it could be on track, I thought. I knew I needed a track 911.
Luckily, I managed to find a 964 track car Dan Jacobs was selling around that time. It was exactly what I was looking for - a modified DE car with a short Club Racing stint that still had full interior and could be street driven. The engine was recently rebuilt before I got it and it pulls hard. I did my first track day with it two weeks after I got it and had a blast. Other than needing to upgrade the brakes, I haven’t had a single issue with it.
I tracked it for a year and a half while also driving it several times a week. Right as the pandemic hit, I decided to stop tracking it because it meant so much to me, and prices were getting so insane that replacing it would be near impossible.
I sold the M3 within a couple months of getting the 964 and haven’t regretted it once. I wouldn’t mind still having it due to the memories or tracking and building it, but if offered it back, I’d probably pass. I sold the SC soon after that because who needs two air cooled 911s? I regret selling that one much more.
BTW, I picked up a 996 GT3 last year to replace the 964 as my track car. It is like a great melding of the 964 and M3. The 964 has better feedback and classic feel, but the engine and suspension in the GT3 is so good. (Both my 964 and GT3 have MCS coilovers). Edit: just noticed you have a GT3 RS, so you know how good these are. I’ll add that I think the 964 and GT3 are great compliments and satisfy different itches. I’ve lost almost all desire for other cars with these two. I do wonder about a 997 RS though…
This is exactly the answer I was looking for - thank you for that! I'm having some trouble parting ways with the car considering how many times I have iterated on it and how well it drives at this point, not to mention how great it looks doing so. The raw emotion and visual allure of the 964 is what has drawn me back to aircooled Porsches and it's just an itch I can't seem to scratch even with the 997. The RS is like a bolt-action rifle; precise and direct but well refined. I'm after a deeper and more stark driving experience.
This is the same combination I have had for many years now...an original 2001 "demo" very early model M3 manual and a 1994 964 red manual coupe both with less than 33k miles. I drive them regularly to warm them up fully even during the winters...no rain...no snow...no rust. Each has their unique driving characters....do all the mechanic work myself since St Louis is a distance away...even M3 valve adjustment which is more tricky than the Porsche. Have been doing 911 valve adjustment and clutch replacement/tensioner replacements since an original 75 911S; now 6 911 later. Far less experience on the M3 but have the workshop manual and ensure nothing drops into the engine during valve adjustments with the little measured discs. I have come to realize, even when driving in Germany for 4 years, you are your best mechanic....German mechanics never quite got the 911 valve adjustments right, I used a micrometer to ensure the feel is just right...they always made for even more valve clatter. And when they said for my 1980 targa "the clutch is fine" I had to take it out myself to show them all those little rubber pieces interfering with normal function was NOT normal.
Had a E46. Great car, sometimes I miss it, not even close to a 964. My 991tt is the best car I’ve ever owned, but I really enjoy the 964. It’s primitive. It’s tiny. It’s fun.
I've had 3 e46 M3's over the past 20 years. Great cars. I still have an 06 that I think I am going to put on BaT. Mine is very modified, but looks more like a sleeper. Has cams, CSL airbox, CSL fuel rail/map sensor, snorkel, full supersprint exhaust, tune, widened ZCP wheels, coilovers, etc. I will say this, if you can afford to have both, I say do that. The cars are different enough from each other to warrant having both. The 964 has been the only car I have ever owned that I prefer driving over my e46 and I feel my e46 is dialed in.
I've had 3 e46 M3's over the past 20 years. Great cars. I still have an 06 that I think I am going to put on BaT. Mine is very modified, but looks more like a sleeper. Has cams, CSL airbox, CSL fuel rail/map sensor, snorkel, full supersprint exhaust, tune, widened ZCP wheels, coilovers, etc. I will say this, if you can afford to have both, I say do that. The cars are different enough from each other to warrant having both. The 964 has been the only car I have ever owned that I prefer driving over my e46 and I feel my e46 is dialed in.
Your car looks amazing - both of them and I'm really digging the OE+ look on the M3 with the ZCPs. I think they are some of the best looking OE wheels to be conceived. Those E88's are looking great on your 964 as well.
I think this would be an ideal scenario to keep both but space is a limiting factor. I suppose I could sell off my E92 M3 since I do enjoy driving the E46 much more. I would be inclined to believe that the driving dynamic between the 964 and E46 is different enough that it wouldn't hurt to keep both, and for this reason I was curious if any owners had made the jump and are regretting their decision of parting ways with either. With the 964 on the continuous rise in popularity and (inherently) price, nicely-optioned E46 M3s are becoming a bit more sparse as well which leads me to believe I may regret this decision eventually. There aren't too many ideal examples of 964's I see available on the market right now (ideal is Grand Prix White or Black), and I'm not usually one to want to up-date from a G-body.
Little ways off the E46 topic but I have an E36 M, closer in vintage to the 964, it is a 95. I got it to teach my daughters how to drive a stick and let them track it and not beat on the 964.
I recently rebuilt the mechanicals/suspension on the 964 so it was hors de combat for 3 months, I drove the M3 a lot, it is tactile and visceral like the Porsche and I really enjoy it. But, having gotten very used to pushing the M3 on both road and track, getting back into the rebuilt 964, well, I am not an automotive writer but you feel the huge difference right away between the original sticker prices of the 2 cars. The Porsche stickered twice the price of the M3, is the culmination of years of evolution of the air cooled/rear engine layout. The M3 was not the ROW car and a hasty sop to the US market. A great car, but the 964 pedigree is just so evident in everything it does.
Just as a last thought, if you get a 964, be sure to adjust your driving style to a motor in the back, it is not nearly as forgiving as the M3 and wants to be in the front, where it thinks it should have been all along!
I've had several E46's. They 964 takes everything good about the M3 to another level. Pure driving experience, classic styling, great build quality. I highly recommend making the change!
First of all @911 jared 964 is amazing and his wheel collection is unmatched.
I agree 100@Sirenty and @Greg Wolfe the manual feel of the 964 (properly set up) is just amazing.
I’ve owned dozens of cars and still own a small variety and I drive my 964’s and RAW993 10 times for every one time I drive a modern day car. Ive owned a half dozen e46’s and they were all great including a heavily modified e46 but the connection to the road and feel of the small 964 is just magical IMHO. I drive on twisty, hilly, Pennsylvania back roads with a small contingent of friends weekly and driving these air cooled, slightly underpowered tactical, machines brings a huge smile to my face and they are magical.
Swap with no hesitation or regret if you are anything like me.
First of all @911 jared 964 is amazing and his wheel collection is unmatched.
I agree 100@Sirenty and @Greg Wolfe the manual feel of the 964 (properly set up) is just amazing.
I’ve owned dozens of cars and still own a small variety and I drive my 964’s and RAW993 10 times for every one time I drive a modern day car. Ive owned a half dozen e46’s and they were all great including a heavily modified e46 but the connection to the road and feel of the small 964 is just magical IMHO. I drive on twisty, hilly, Pennsylvania back roads with a small contingent of friends weekly and driving these air cooled, slightly underpowered tactical, machines brings a huge smile to my face and they are magical.
Swap with no hesitation or regret if you are anything like me.
Beautifully put and well-said. Amazing examples as well - you seem to have quite the collection. You do own a 997 GT as well right? If I recall, I might have seen a photo of it elsewhere on RL! How does your 964 compare in terms of overall driving feel to the 997?
And just to clarify, no those are not all my cars (ha) just the club/warehouse where I have Betty White the white 964 and RAW993 the white 993 with the supercup livery. The Rubystone is my most aggressive build.
08-17-2022, 09:00 PM
E46 M3 to 964?
I’ll add that I think the 964 and GT3 are great compliments and satisfy different itches. I’ve lost almost all desire for other cars with these two. I do wonder about a 997 RS though…
IMG_1374 by Greg Wolfe, on Flickr
IMG_1373 by Greg Wolfe, on Flickr
IMG_1366 by Greg Wolfe, on Flickr
IMG_1171 copy by Greg Wolfe, on Flickr
IMG_9234 by Greg Wolfe, on Flickr
