Ecosse911

I hate to disappoint but this is not going to be a Netflix binge series more of a vision and what has materialized so far. Not the way I had originally planned but based on my rate of progress this past year its the reality. I would view it as a journey and one that hopefully folks will have an opportunity to provide input which may influence the final destination. I guess that might translate to I may need to lean on those who have already ventured this path.

I first introduced the car back in June 2021 in the random 964 picture thread not long after the purchase out of Las Vegas. I got lucky by posting a Rennlist ad, found a car that was not as yet for sale which appeared to be a good fit for plans. To be clear I wanted and advertised for a car that was going to be a project car and I already new it would be destined for a lightweight build with a track oriented focus. Also to be honest I didn’t know too much about an RSA until the PO reached out regarding my wanted ad for a C2 MT car. After some quick research it seemed like a slightly lighter and more raw C2 but nothing too special. This was important as I planned to do some serious nip and tuck, maybe a wide body. Anyway before going into details of the intended build here is my RSA.



Survived Death Valley

Heading up into the sierras

Freak snow storm in May

Meeting my old GTS

She was used as intended and appears to have spent some time on track but by the time I picked her up there was only small tell tales left of the prior life, left over cage and harness holes. The car is complete but definitely far from a collector, mostly original paint based on my meter readings but has had a front end paint repair many moons ago. Some early observations about my 964, there is no obvious rust on the car, drives straight and definitely would score top points for tracked patina. Track patina’d rear quarters but hey it is original paint so must be worth a fortune The motor has 114K miles, completely dry not a single drip of oil on floor and pulls really strong (until the the aux distributor belt snapped). The owner prior to the seller tracked the car and it was obvious that mechanicals were far more important than cosmetics. The motor had a full top and bottom rebuild 10K miles ago and I drove it from Las Vegas through Death Valley in scorching heat up into the Sierra’s where I got caught in a snow storm. Epic journey where at one point when the road was officially closed behind me I started to get a little apprehensive, my supplies totaling a couple of protein bars and a bottle of water. To top it off my clutch pedal sunk and I lost the clutch and ended driving through the Sierra’s stuck in 4th gear. I have done a lot of driving in snow growing up in Scotland so my prior experience came in useful. After getting safely off the mountain I was able to stop at a gas station and took a look at the clutch. In the end I simply grabbed the pedal and yanked it back up and low and behold I had a clutch. Drove home to the SF bay area arriving in the early hours. I had a lot of respect for the wee air cooled 964 after making it through the snow storm like a trooper.

Ecosse911

Fast forward a 1.5 years, what have I learned about my car and has it changed my original plans? I have learned a lot but still feel I have only scratched the surface so far. I do need to give a shout out to three individuals who have already had impact on my build. They are all significant Rennlist contributors and I thank them helping me embark on my 964 journey. First Anthony @cobalt was instrumental in providing me with some insight and guidance to move forward with the original remote purchase of the RSA. Next up Sam @Moriartyhlms who kindly agreed to meet up with me and let me drive his 964 4L build on a trip to Socal. He also enabled me to do a tour of Ed Pink racing in Socal who I met to discuss a possible future motor build. Last for now is Charles @964.4L who hooked me up with a fabulous carbon fiber guy in the UK. I made a trip to his shop in England this summer and his business is taking off, builds with premier UK builders like Everetti, Tuthill and GTR Motorsport. Without Rennlist I would never have made these contacts so I try to do my part in giving back.

Ecosse911

Some carbon fiber teaser pics of my seats.. I wonder if anyone notices something about the weave? Look at the last two pics of the finished seats

In fab

Trimming

Before lacquering

After GT Motorsport sanded and finished lacquered

Finished

Ecosse911

So the desirability of the RSA appears to have increased beyond my expectations and at times made me 2nd guess my plans. For now I have decided to keep it a narrow body, I love the wide body but I feel the spirit of the Euro RS and RSA is to stay narrow body “sleeper look”. However the roof is getting cut off and it wont be steel as this will be one of the carbon fiber elements. The carbon fiber theme “rabbit hole” started with a set of bespoke seats based off an original 993 RS mould. However once I saw James work I got carried away and ordered a hood, roof and engine lid and I am trying to resist the urge to buy his doors which are a work of art. I will also have a few carbon fiber elements in the interior. So far I am really just accumulating the parts which will be shipped over to the US next year.

As mentioned this is going to be built as my version of a Euro RS, light, low slung, more power (eventually) and better handling (I hope It needs to have some upgraded safety, so a custom roll bar maybe with the capability to bolt in a front section however I don’t intend for it to become a dedicated track car. I do intend to track the car before it gets its carbon make over so my thoughts are to do a staged build.

Phase 0 “learn to drive”.. this is a retro addition as I have been humbled by this car

Phase 1 “handling” suspension, brakes, running gear and safety (new addition re-gear)

Phase 2 “diet time” strip to bare shell, seam weld, carbon parts, light weight glass or other

Phase 3 “power” it has to be a 4.0 but I need more time to figure out some details

I see myself as an average driver, I have been on track with newer 911’s but I only have a few track days under my belt. I mainly have been early morning weekend driving up in the mountains for a few years. I have never found myself out of control in my newer 911s but I have been humbled a couple of times in the RSA and very lucky that we are both still in one piece. I know most folks think newer, faster but I have a 991 RS which I love but its just so dam capable. So I want to go back to basics and see what me and the RSA can do on the track. However I will be honest in its present form I think it would be a short experiment.

More carbon fiber teasers for phase 2 prep

Roof lacquered, flattened and ready for paint

Rear lid lacquered, flattened and ready for paint

Rear lid lacquered, flattened and ready for paint

Hood inside finished lacquered, middle will get body color later

Deck lid finish lacquered

Deck lid finish lacquered

Hood lacquered, flattened and ready for paint

Ecosse911

Phase 1 - handling and safety. This is both the safety of the car such that I don’t kill it and my safety. The motor is strong but I have found that some things were neglected much like any 30yr old car. The distributor belt snapped and I found I had been running on the auxiliary circuit and the primary coil was shot. So my first mechanical job was to completely rebuild the distributor with new bearings and belt, the journey had begun. Next up new plug leads and 993 coils which I am going to do when I drop the motor this winter. In getting to know my 991’s it was taking the bumper off and doing exhaust and headers and stuff. But I feel like in the air cooled space you need to do a motor drop to really get in there and see what’s going on. I am looking forward to the motor drop and also replacing the fuel lines as I have read too many threads now to feel comfortable about my originals.

The suspension is sitting waiting on me in boxes all shiny and brand new. (Shout out to Ira at Tarett for awesome service and support, they supplied everything bar the BBi uprights)

• BBi billet uprights the main stay of the front suspension
• MCS 2WR maybe overkill with the canisters but I am hoping it will give another degree of freedom to cater to a little road time vs track
• All monoball, shock mounts, RSR inner tie rods, BBi outer, 964 RS sway bars, drop links (I will post some pics up of what I have so far)

Brakes (what a fiasco)

• I went with Brembo GT brakes, sorry I paid for Brembo GT brakes 8 months ago and I have the rears but not fronts.
• Front are 993’s and the rears 964. However someone in their wisdom changed my requested part number of the 993 front to be a matching set for a 964. 3 months later they arrive, joy and excitement turns to surprise and disappointment when I discover they sent 964 fronts. It turns out I am not completely innocent as the supplier (Vivid Racing) sent over a confirmation note where they changed the part number but said nothing. I didn’t even consider to check until they arrived and discovered they were wrong. That was back in July and I am still waiting for Race Technologies (Brembo USA) to rectify and send me the correct kit. I don’t know if it was RT or Vivid that made the PN change but I can tell you that Vivid obviously don’t have much pull as I its now been 8 months. I really hope they are worth the wait.
• I bought a brand new 993 booster, master cylinder, lines (shout out to @Spyerx as I learned a lot from his build thread)

Other running gear notes

• The car is caked underneath and so far it is a filthy job dismantling, I wish I had pressure washed before starting. I want to clean up the aluminum parts with a likely bead blast maybe clear coat. Replace consumables like wheel bearing or CVs and clean up and get hardware plated (if I can find somewhere in NorCal)
• I am learning as I go but so far its been fun and a lot of opportunities to buy new tools

Transmission

• I forget if I mentioned but 3rd gear is notchy which is ok for canyon carving but not ideal on track, so I am thinking about a rebuild when I drop the motor
• The transmission rabbit hole awaits.. of course I need a GT LSD, steel syncros and why not re-gear
• I have read countless threads and started to tabulate what has been posted over the years. I tried to get in contact with Matt at GT gears but no luck so far.
• The clutch is fine but maybe I will replace and install either a light or mid weight fly wheel
• New update I spoke to Matt at GT gears today so the ball is now rolling

Motor (phase 1)

• Focus on making it reliable so I can have some fun on track without it blowing up or catching fire. So check all fuel lines and replace the engine bay lines (open to suggestions on products)
• Install 993 coils as I found out the original 964 primary wasn’t reliable when the belt snapped and auxiliary dropped out. Distributor was completely rebuilt and I just need to install the plug leads
• As mentioned already the motor has a full rebuild, I have been through the receipts and the oil pump was replaced and so far oil pressure is pretty solid. So I plan to enjoy the car in stock form and then when Phase 2 starts I may also do Phase 3 in parallel. It really depends on funds and if I think I need a power boost.
• Apart from stuff like belts is there anything else I should check replace to ensure longevity under track like usage?

That's all for now, I will post some more pics of the car in pieces when I get time.

Also hopefully I can use this thread to ask questions along the way and not crash other folks threads as much, sorry 😊

cobalt

I am not sure I digested all of that but you are welcome. Always happy to help other enthusiasts and it looks like that slope got slippery really fast. LOL You have to appreciate what a wealth of knowledge and great contributors we have here.

Looks like the seats are done properly. Is that Carbon Kevlar weave? I wonder if he can make me a real RSR hood copy in the same material as they came from the factory. Very impressive work they do and you have me thinking. If I ever get these 2 engines done the next project might go in a different direction and I might be picking your brains on that one.

For dual purpose I think the 2WR MCS is a good choice. I honestly wish I did it in my C2 instead of the 2WNR. The ability to adjust spring pressure by adjusting gas pressure is a nice feature. I wish I used 50 pounds less spring rate both front and rear. It is perfect for most roads but some are too abusive which has me considering swapping the springs out which is work.

Looks like you have our hands full for now.

Bill Verburg

The late 964 C2 g50/05 actually has decent gearing for the stock motor,. Not quite as good as the earlier /03 due to a change to a taller cwp

if you do go to a 4.0 w/ extended rev range, the only change I'd recommend is to 993 g50/30, /31 or /32

Ecosse911

Bill I have looked for a year both stateside and across the pond. If you know where I can find one then please let me know. It was my first approach but I gave up and that’s how the rebuild / regear came about as a fall back.

Bill Verburg

Here's a comparison of a g50/03, g50/05(yours), and a g50/20(US 993 6spd) same engine and tires w/ a 7K rev limit


and a comparison of w/ a g50/30 instead of the /20

w/ the 7K rev limit the /20 just gets a larger range w/ not much closer spacing, w/ a /30 you get less range but closer spacing all through the gears, w/ extended rev range
Here's a comparo of a conservative(limited to 7.5k rev limit) 4.0 compared to 993 nvr and 993RS, the extended rev range really allows the closer gear ratios to shine, w/o the extended rrev limit closer gearig is nice but usually won't amaze, again w/ stock 964 a change to the /03 cwp will be a very nice and relatively cheap upgrade, do it when you add the GT lsd, a 4.0 won't need this of course

J richard

You sure you want to do that to a RSA? Even if it’s been tracked?

I’m thinking about selling this build, I have the stock components (including the RSA bits, ac, seats, tail/deck, hood, shelf, belts etc…)

it’s a bit too nice to race…all your CF bolts on, I was even thinking of a wide body on it…

I’m in the process of getting it registered for the street, might be a better place to start and not cut up a relatively stock car….

Ecosse911

Bill, what I have found in my personal use case is that 3rd is too tall. I agree that if I had more rev range or more torque then the stock ratios could be just fine or maybe great. However I need to rebuild the gearbox and 3rd likely needs replaced. So if replacing anyway then a re-gear could be done at the same time. When I look at what others have done (caveat is I don't have the their specific motor, wheels, use case) it seems that it is very common to adjust 3rd from 1.407 to 1.526 irrespective of the final drive (3.33 or 3.44). If I go to a 3.44 then it will mirror a /10 in 3rd - 5th but 2nd is taller in a /10. So it seems like the two options are stay with 3.44 final and adjust 3rd - 5th or go to 3.33 final and adjust 2nd but I don't know anything about if 2nd is easily swapped or still available in that ratio.

On a serious note if you know or anyone else knows of a legit /21 or /31 for sale please PM me

koenig_roland

i have a bespoke G50.03 in my ex C4 trackday-car:

Gearing is this. Even in germany at the Autobahn, the 5th gear is ok-ish :-)


I closed the gab between 2 and 3 (anoying for the Ring) and left the gab between 3 and 4 like stock (but at a lower level) and closed the gab between 4 and 5. Gears are albins gears from australia...

Regarding suspension: i had a bespoke KW Comp2 - ordered via manthey done last year. Alloy rear struts, shorter housing in the front, quite soft springs (like Euro RS) for the Nürburgring and proper aligned at manthey... Now it drive quite ok at the street (event the nearly 1000km one way to the tribute event last year: https://964tribehangout.com/) and is good at the track..

jeff33702

Seems like a good time to ask - G50 5-SPEED TRANSAXLE SPECIFICATIONS-GBOX Transmission (gboxweb.com) Shows the RSA G50 as having a different ring/pinion vs the normal C2 - 3.33 RSA and 3.44 C2. Not sure why as none of the other gears are different.

cobalt

The technical spec book claims all US spec C2's came with the G50/05 trans however we know that isn't the case. We know for some reason we have no explanation for all US spec C2 and RSA's from 1992 on were supplied with the G50/05 and prior to that were G50/03. The RoW C2's all came with the G50/03 for 92 on. My US spec 93 C2 has from the factory a G50/05 with LSD 40%. I have a spare trans from a 91 and it is a G50/03 with open diff.

Bill Verburg

I agree that an RSA should have a g50/05 w/ the taller 9:30, 3.333 cwp

here's a comp of several 964 trans

The one I like best is the last one but it still has issues, he used the taller motorsports 1 which allows everything to be closed up, the main issue is that if you drive on the street at all you want a top of ~160-170, not because you will go that fast but because of cruise rpm

That's where the g50/3x shine the tall 1 and the extra gear for close ratios and decent cruise rpm


There's a g50/20 US 993 trans for sale over on Pelican but I'd want a new main shaft just to start, the stock ones have 1 and later version 1 & 2 fixed, thus not changeable w/o a motorsports main shat