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I don't see how it's at all possible to pay far less than market value on a "good" 964 these days - those deals just don't seem to exist. Part of the issue in the current environment is the recent boom in popularity of air-cooled cars, and most "good" examples sell so quickly that there is simply no time for diligence. Most are sold well before they even hit the open market.
I see many 964's that sell privately far more than on the open market and good is subjective. Good and 964's just don't seem to be used in the same sentence for under $150k. Most I see sell for that and have at least 60-70 hours worth of needs to be taken care of IMO.
I picked up a very well maintained but cosmetically handicapped C4 converted to C2 with every possible suspension and engine upgrade. Big reds, Cup car suspension, All monoballs, Short ratio gearbox, guard LSD, 3.6 stock engine which dynos at 272 hp and 269 ft pounds of tq for $33,500 back in late 2021. There are deals out there if you know where and what to look for.
She isn't pretty but will make for a good widebody RSR candidate one day for now she is my spare track car. I have had offers exceeding $65k but I suspect could get more these days.
We call it the **** box. Because of its looks. Ironically this car gets as much attention as any other.
Sadly my son money shifted the engine but the damage was minor and will cost me $3-4k to fix but I could easily fix this up to look nice for under $30k and sell it for probably 6 figures these days.
The car I am currently working on for a friend will be the death of me. The deeper I look through this "well sorted "NO expense spared" car the more I find it needs This could exceed 100 hours to get correct. They Are lucky I am a glutton for punishment.
The sunroof seal which they just installed was installed backwards and incorrectly. They miss cut it so tried to glue small pieces to cover up their mistake. So on top of t he alarm system which is totally fastunckin. The sunroof I now find needs all new cables and transmission box. The gears are stripped and obviously so when operated.
So far this is what I am seeing out of a well sorted car sold on BaT. This is a 993 so not same issues as 964's but the point is clear. This car was not even gone through or was done by an amature who shouldn't work on garden hoses.
Alarm system tootally inoperable and a nightmare to deal with leaving you locked out.
Clutch is shot needs new flywheel as I suspect the rivets have damaged it.
100% repaint wrong color minus the wing, mirrors and third brake light. Paint peeling in engine bay. Cowl clearly had rust with mass amounts of filler and painted over. An amature can tell this car had paintwork.
Brakes are 1.1mm under spec and will not properly stop a 400 hp car. So negligence on the sellers part who claimed everything was gone through. God forbid anything happened before I repalced the brakes
Shocks are original and barely doing anything making the car very unsettled feeling.
Needs new shifter bushings
Sunroof new seal, cables and transmission
Wire harness chopped to install aftermarket radio
New battery failed when I put a load tester on it, even after being on a tender for 48 hours showing fully charged.
Only one key and transmitter
No code for immobilizer. I was able to obtain from Porsche though.
I haven't even gotten to the A/C and other possible expensive repairs needed. If you went to a shop in labor alone the needs of this car exceed $20k. Add the clutch, alarm issues, suspension and other needs we are easily looking at $20k so at a min of $40k to fix this "well sorted car" out. He is lucky I love working on these and love a challenge because that is what this car is.
Sunroof seal before I fixed it,
And after. It still isn't sitting correctly because the sunroof twists as it opens and closes so I need to correct that.
Probably your chief negotiation tactics that landed you that money shifted track car for such a great deal. I'm sure it only need $3k and 2 hours.
The car was running perfectly for the $33.5k drove it for many track days until my son decided he wanted to learn how to drive an Air-cooled after tearing up the track in his caymanS. He had mastered the car in a day and was chasing down a Rick DeMan GT4 with 4.0 L build for 7 laps when he dropped it into 2nd instead of 4th going down the front straight. The Garmin showed the tach go right around instantly. If the engine wasn't so well built it would have been toast but it suffered only minor exhaust valve damage on 2 of the cylinders. Also a Single spring retainer was cracked lucky it wasn't worse. So new Aasco springs and retainers, all new exhaust valves and guides and should be good as new.
I will be polishing out the intake ports while I wait for the parts to come in.
You can see the leakage of this one exhaust valve. Only 92% loss of compression. When I first got the car the worst cylinder was at 6% loss. Shift happens.
Sir - I see the heads are machined for a sealing ring. Are the cylinders also machined for a ring? I've seen mulitple ways people say to seal the heads to the cylinder... from using flat-on-flat/no gasket..to machining just the cylinders, just the heads or both. I bought a 993 gasket/ring and it seems to measure appropriately for using a groove only on one side (cylinder in my situation). Planning to run 993 sealing rings, no groove on head and groove on only cylinder at this point.
Sir - I see the heads are machined for a sealing ring. Are the cylinders also machined for a ring? I've seen mulitple ways people say to seal the heads to the cylinder... from using flat-on-flat/no gasket..to machining just the cylinders, just the heads or both. I bought a 993 gasket/ring and it seems to measure appropriately for using a groove only on one side (cylinder in my situation). Planning to run 993 sealing rings, no groove on head and groove on only cylinder at this point.
Check out the resurrection of **** Box thread. It will explain the entire car.
The heads and cylinders were decked. to increase compression and add the crush rings. The engine was very strong CUp car strong, timing was retarded to push power up high so this thing moved along nicely for an old POS. Just waiting on parts and then the guides will be repalced, new exhaust valves, springs and retainers and back up and running.
Yes my son did it but it was an honest mistake. The numeric shifter gives a false sense of position and he was chasing down that 4.0L GT4 LOL.
So I feel sorry for the buyer of the Noon 3.6T I hope they are ready to dump some money into it. It makes this 993 I am working on look like a gem.
So Final update on the BaT Needs Nothing no expense spared 993 I worked on for a friend.
It is a nice car now. I spent 60-80 hours working on it fixing everything I could find.
The list of things needed.
Brakes:
All rotors were 1.1mm under spec.
Rubber lines are dry and hard.
Front calipers could use a rebuild.
Brake fluid had to be over 15 years old.
I removed the old fluid had great difficulty pushing the front pistons back and this is what the fluid looked like mixed with new. It took 4 cans of ATE 200 to clean it 90%. There was more air than fluid in the lines.
Mixture of old and new fluid.
Incorrect bolts used for calipers. Covered in a rather toxic coating to prevent rust. I repalced them with the proper bolts and washers which were missing.
Suspension:
The shocks are shot. Left front is 50% front right 0% rears at 30%. Guestimate on feel. Car yaws and does strange things when lifting after WoT.
Hard to miss this broken boot and the drop link is sloppy.
Hard to shift:
Shift linkage had 2 shot cups the one to the shifter was only being held in place by the rubber boot. I am surprised he wasn't left stranded.
Happened to have one in stock to replace his for now. New one in place. The number of spider webs and nests tells me this car had been abandoned for a long time.
Sunroof:
I had to take apart the entire sunroof to fix the damage when they painted the car. Missing pieces and cross threaded hardware. I was surprised it worked at all. It still could use a new cable but works adequately so I didn't bother. But what excuse is there for this.
Seal was installed backwards so clearly they had no clue to what they were doing.
Just sloppy work.
After many hours of fixing their mistakes.
The new seals from the factory are junk. The older seals were heat sealed to hold the tubing in place.. The new seals the tubing floats inside making it far harder to get right. If I do this ain using factory seals they will need to be dissected and glued back together properly then installed.
Alarm/IMMO:
We don't have this horrendous system in our 964's thank goodness. I spent over 18 hours diagnosing this with the help of Loren from System Consultants, Jay from Immoblock and a friend who's a Porsche tech specializing in these. We all were scratching our heads. It ended up being a slight electrical path created by the capacitor that had leaked ever so slightly and was causing the alarm to act strangely. A little electric cleaner spray and all fixed for now. Any shop would have swapped out the brains at many Thousands of expense.
The red capacitor leaked making a fine bridge of current to the resistor next to it.
Clutch:
The pedal was chattering like crazy and the clutch engages just mm from full release. Slipped at WoT in 4th. These have a separate hydraulic boost pump using CHF11S and is part of the power steering vs the braking system. So I syphoned the old fluid out and repalced with fresh. This helped tremendously but IMO needs a new clutch soon so I decided not to spend hours bleeding it since this will be done when the clutch is addressed.
All 4 corners need CV boots min possibly new axles.
A new steering rack is needed.
About 2 ounces of fluid came out when I removed the boot.
The trans is covered in oil and clearly the engine was too at one time not long ago. The mess was covered up by pressure washing.
All in all it is a nice car despite the non original paint and wheels but the bill to bring this up to speed could have easily exceed $50k if i didn't help out. I suspect the trans needs a rebuild based on the amount of caked on oil and 3 & 4 are tough to get into gear. I didn't get much further as I was afraid to touch anything else. If it didn't fight me it needed to be repaired or repalced.
So minus any cosmetics which I addressed for the most part. This is a very nice car in need of some more TLC. At least the major stuff was addressed for safety for now.
This is what BaT wants us to believe is OK for a seller to pass off as a "Needs Nothing Car"
So they let me post on the 3.6T that went RNM. I was polite and only questioned false facts stated. I was commenting on another's 3.6t and how nice it was when I saw it at AMelia but once the auction went RNM they censored my posts again. Now all my posts are being removed before posting.
There is a unique colored green C4 for sale which clearly has been in an accident and i suspect a bad one. They will not let me post but the car has most likely had the right rear quarter panel repalced. For some reason everyone assumes the clean weld on the right is factory which isn't the case. The factory welds were always very rough and done by hand stick welded cleaned slightly and painted over. The vin sticker on the drivers side is missing and the car appears to be a full repaint. I suspect matching that color is very hard. They used some aggressive cleaner on the engine. Pictures show very little most likely on purpose.
It can be a nice car for someone but already over bid at $105k. I find it ironic that my factual posts are omitted but others who are being less than kind get posted.
I find it so frustrating that you are banned from posting. I doubt their system is very sophisticated, so I wonder if you could still call out unscrupulous (or simply uninformed) sellers if you cleared your browser cache, logged into a VPN, and created a new account.
I used to spend a fair amount of time looking at BAT cars and also noticed many serious flaws and only occasionally made a comment on obvious big mis-representations.
Then I also noticed that some VW Bus people slam every tiny defect they can find on regular vehicles that are not being advertised as show pieces.
Quite the dichotomy...
One thing is for sure... BAT is not a place for finding good value, its top of market or overpriced.
02-17-2023, 10:09 AM
When I first got the car the worst cylinder was at 6% loss. Shift happens.
I like the letter of apology but I wouldn't hold my breath. Integrity, didn't hat word get removed from Websters in the 20th century. 
