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I think they did a great job modernizing the aesthetic while retaining the original vibe on the Turbo study. I was way more impressed by that car than I ever was with a backdate.
Astonishing factory and very well organized. Would be an amazing place to visit or work.
I don't mind our cars being backdated, it's a much better option than a gutted track car. Additionally, many of the other backdating companies pale in comparison to Singer. I hope they keep coming out with variants and eventually start their own production like RUF. They have all the connections and clientele to make anything possible.
Also I would do anything for a DLS. That has to be the pinnacle of cars. Absolute marvel in sounds, aesthetics, and engineering.
The turbo study doesn't cut up the entire body. Same roof and they should use OEM 930 quarters and fenders.
Singer can easily recreate a 3.8 RS, keep the Same 964 Body and still get a million. ....production times way faster.
It's the name and quality that buyers invest.
We are all going to get tired of another cut up 964. History shows, trends change every decade with 911's and it's been a decade with backdated Singers.
DLS shown here with i guess a carbon fiber interior overlay piece. This shows the A-pillar as doubling or tripling in size.
The factory A-pillar is 1.5" if that, depending on your angle. That said is this a new Chassis?
Last edited by Scott Dunavant; 03-02-2023 at 12:12 AM.
DLS has an integrated cage. Style decisions are arguable, but there isn’t much they left out in the engineering. 9300rpm, 4-valve heads, 2200lbs, etc etc.
The world will run out of easily available gas, have bans on gas engines within city limits, and probably run out of civilization long before all the 964s are gone.
I don't mind our cars being backdated, it's a much better option than a gutted track car..
Exactly.
I can't recall a single thread full of the same endless bemoaning with regards to 964's being shamelessly bastardized from roadworthy rarities into lowly track rats.
The details in Singer builds are exceptional. If you're a 964 owner, you win either way. You now have an additional stock parts supply and Singer has raised the value of your vehicle by removing a fair amount of cars from the market. It's really cool seeing Alois Ruf, Tony Hatter, and Jay Kay (Jamiroquai) checking out the new Singer Turbo Study.
[QUOTE=cobalt;18656784][QUOTE=-nick;18656539]Nobody has to like Singer but this is more than a bit silly.
>50% according to?
Originally Posted by cobalt
So at the rate of 3-500 or so a year it won't be long before there are no eligible coupes or targas remaining in the US. Assuming if everyone sells US coupes will be gone in another 3-4 years min and then the remaining are spread out around the planet and how many of those suffered the same fate as the early years here?[\QUOTE]
The video starts by saying they’ve built 250 while in business for over a decade and have orders in for another 450. Where does the 3-500 come from?
A bit emotional maybe, I agree. The rest is opinion, we all have them. I can own most any Porsche I would want and honestly I always come back to these cars. Appreciate them all from the 901 to the taycan but the 964 will always be my favorite and many I know agree. The 964 fits the bill for me obviously it has its pros and cons and needs some updating but it has its merits. After all it is the basis for these modern reimaginations. All I can say is I am seeing very nice examples in great colors selling for 6 figures heading to Singer. The supply is drying up.
I see a lot of the same cars trading hands and we all watched from the 2000's to not long ago as hundreds of these were being chopped up, turned into dedicated track cars, crashed and just abandoned because they had no value. Not much different than the 914 world. I witnessed hundreds that were parted out and I hate to say I chopped up a few myself. How else could you get used parts before Autobahn? Pelican Forums, as there were a few chopping them up at 3 -4 a week at the peek. So my figures might have some emotion added, but I don't think the're silly.
So considering I see a crash free tub for under $130k maybe a 1:10 good to bad that qualify to go to singer how many can that leave? I am tired of fixing damaged cars. I have been hearing a lot of numbers that don't jive. IMO an attempt to keep the publicity down just like the 65k 964's made the magazines all claim. Sorry I can't trust their numbers. The number I am hearing was higher and they supposedly have another 130+ prepped and in waiting while chopping up 3-4 a week. I assumed the info was true based on the source and a few that said the same who have a place in line. It is possible they all gave me identical false info.
The biggest issue I have is the need for straight tubs only. They are chopping up some amazing cars with so very few nice ones trading hands these days. It is not that difficult to make a cab into a coupe for the money involved. All this great work and something like adding a roof skin is not worth it?
In any case 4 years or 8. The value of mine keep going up but these were much more fun when they weren't such a commodity.
Back to the regularly scheduled programming.
Anthony,
IMO your numbers/assumptions are spot on.
I‘m not an insider of the US market but when you talk about how many 964s are still on the road vs being backdated,
you should start calculating the C 2 Coupes and Targas only. I even focus on manual, LHD cars, because that’s what gets backdated typically.
How many did survive the times when it was the unloved child and when they were so cheap? I don‘t know.
But I know that we have now more than 20 shops / tuner in Europe alone building backdates based on 964.
Some of them have perhaps build only 5, but others more than 20. If the average is 10 they have cut roughly the same number as Singer.
I take a different approach, I check the availability on various platforms here in Europe.
In Europe elferspot.com. gets more and more popular if you look for a nice 911.
Do a search of 964 Backdates and you find 50.
A search for a 964 C2 Coupé, manual, LHD and the result is 11 with prices starting around 100k€.
I bet in 5 years from now the numbers will be 100 Backdates/5 964 C2 Coupé and a nice C2 will cost nearly as much as an 964RS.
The search for the 964 RS on elferspot BTW delivers currently around 15 results. WW production was 1992 units.
For people like Singer it will get tougher to find additional donor cars in the future because more and more owners love it as it is.
03-01-2023, 06:27 PM
