Ian A

I am by no means an expert, so please excuse any obvious errors in the detail I give.

I appear to have an oil leak (shock, horror!!)that i am told has been traced to the "barrel seals" (?) allowing oil to blow past a piston, which occurs as a result of the lack of cylinder head gasket, and of course hard driving.

Apparently, this work requires a top end rebuild. I am advised that with the mileage the car has done (115,000 km - it's an import) it would be advisable to replace the clutch plate and the "valve springs". This all sounds horrendously expensive to me, and I am told to expect a bill of around £4,000 (GBP). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

My question is, does this sound about right to you guys in terms of what work is required and the price?

Again, any advice would be great

Ian A

DaveK

Hi,
Top end rebuild price in the UK usually seems to be £2.5K plus any "extra" stuff you need - and £4K sounds about average.

How bad is your leak? 70K miles doesn't seem all that high to need a top end. Mine had one just before I bought the car - at 120K miles.

Where are you based and what mechanic / garage are you using? They sound like they are being pretty encouraging towards you spending money.

Dave
90 C4

GaryN

Hi Ian,
The price does sound about right. BUT do get a second or third opinion as prices do vary.

Good luck

Gary '91 C2

johnfm

Ian

not enough info I'm afraid.

AS Dave says, how bad is the oil leak?? Have you seen it yourself? WHich garage is giving you this sage advice?

Why would an oil leak necessitate valve springs and clutch??

I smell a bit of a rat here!

Phil Raby

Certainly worth checking the clutch while the engine is out. Not sure of the validity of renewing valve springs, though.

DaveK

Even so - there is a difference between checking the clutch and "at this mileage it's advisable to replace...".

Phil Raby

Agreed. Who's to say the clutch hasn't just been replaced?

Ian, I suggest you get another opinion or two. If a straightforward top-end rebuild is required, £2.5k is about right. Like John said, though, it's hard to comment without the full story.

Phil

Johnny G Pipe

Hi..I sincerely hope this isn't your introduction to the world of the 911. 'At last I own a 911, oh and it just cost me 4 grand to fix....'

I should say that unless you sold a kidney to buy the car, you should feel safe in the knowledge that you have taken the step that most automotive enthusiasts promise themselves 'one day', but never do. So that's a good thing, right? And to mis-quote the cliche, if it doesn't leak oil, then it's not a Porsche engine..

None of us can tell whether the work you have been advised is necessary right now, without coming to inspect your car, however,
if you use the search function, you will probably see that many top end rebuilds seem to be because of drips on the garage floor, rather than a significant problem with the engine's performance.

As I understand it, the infamous absent head gasket thing was more problematic for oil escaping from the crankase and onto the floor, rather than getting past the pistons..although I could be wrong. Regarding the clutch - you need to wait until they inspect it, if the engine does come out, I guess, unless youre certain that it's still on the original unit. My '90 C4 had a clutch last at 30k. Now at 90k, it still seems to be going strong (touch wood).

The main question I would ask of the experts here is, if there is such a leak, would it risk causing any damage to wait and see, unless the car's performance is affected?

Finally, if the car does need the work, at least you can get the two big costs that most of our cars will need eventually out of the way:to justify the outlay, you just have to keep and enjoy the car for a few years - and that's definitely a good thing, right?

Ian A

Once again - tnx all for your replies!

What happened was as follows:

After viewing around 8 examples, I bought the car which initially seemd in excellent condition, with very little visibly wrong with it (in terms of bodywork, etc.). I had read up on what to watch for (faulty A/C etc.) and all seemed well.

Having aspired to having a 911 (and particularly a 964) for some time, I tried to be extra careful - ensuring full history and all bills, etc.

As the car was due a service according to the schedule, I booked it in to a local ex-Porsche specialist, who was extremely helpful. He pointed out however, that my rear "bellypan" was wet with oil, and would need to be investigated.

Wanting my car to be perfect, I asked for an investigation as to the problem to be carried out, and was told about the 'barrels' blowing which required a top end stripdown (I was quoted £2.5-3k for this work). I asked for this to be carried out, which is when we discovered the clutch plate being down to it's rivets, and several of the valve springs to be broken - not to mention a 'nick' in one of the cylinder head surfaces - where it sits against the block to be exact.
This is the apparent source of the leak.
The actual piston appeared to have slight scoring also.

I am told that we can 'machine' the surface of the cylinder head and the piston, but we need to replace the springs (£400 a set!).

At all times, I have been invited to view for myself the state of the engine, and time has been taken to explain to me everything I need to know, but I have no way of quantifying the cost of the work to be carried out, and to ask for a second opinion I guess I need to be clear as to what work I need doing, and I'm not sure that I am clear!!

Anyway, that's the (lengthy!) state of play - I LOVE my car - it is a dream realised to own it, but I just wanted to ensure that the cost I am being quoted to do this work is an accurate reflection of the amount I am paying (£4k).

Thanks again - any thoughts?

Ian

DaveK

Hi,
OK, so it's a bit late for our advice about "get a second opinion before you get it done"....

Given the work you mentioned, I'd say it's about right. The top end rebuild alone averages £2.5K, and as we said earlier, probably £4K with the extra things they always find. A clutch on a C4 averages about £900 - plus another £500 or so if you need a flywheel (although you save some since your engine is out already).

Dave
90 C4

Ian A

Ah yes - I was a bit unclear with my original post, wasnt I

I do however appreciate the advice - I'm hoping further bills will be nowhere near as costly!

On a positive note, at least the technician doing the work will know my engine back to front for future reference - everything else *seems* ok (with the exception of minor things like the seatbelt warning lamp not illuminating even with a new bulb, etc.)

thanks again for your responses all

Ian

DaveK

Hi,
Seatbelt warning light could be a problem with the clock itself. They are not the most reliable things in the world and can cause odd problems. There was a post recently on repairing them (re-soldering the back). I had to replace mine not long after I got the car - it used to cause my traction / ABS lights to stay on after startup (no matter how long I waited) until I got to 3K revs. I still have the old clock, so if you want to borrow it to rule yours out let me know.

Hope you have some trouble free miles now. But I warn you - these cars encourage you to spend money on them. Mine has just made me order a RUF suspension kit. It said it needed it.....

Dave
90 C4

johnfm

Seatbelt warning light - check the condition of the cable beneath the drivers seat - mine recently was torn out of its connector!

Re the £4k rebuild/clutch/valve springs - sounds reasonable now that all facts are known - I just hope you didn't pay too much for this car in ht efirst place!

Jack667

Look into the flywheel also - I would change clutch and flywheel while the work is being done. You probably have the early, problematic dual-mass flywheel. Search the archives for more info. Good luck!

Ian A

It cost me £13,500 and was bought from a private seller - and it's a totally different beast compared to my last car, a Corrado VR6.

The VR6 delivers its power evenly (due to the V6 I guess), whereas the 911 seems to build up and swell before hitting you with the punch - different altogether.

Anyway - many thanks everyone, this forum is fantastic!!

Ian A