Rust Repair - 101....

John D. · 11-02-2009, 07:36 PM

Every once in a while - the Porsche God smiles in my direction - or - sometimes a blind nut finds a squirrel - or - sometimes even a hog finds a truffle - or.... Well - you get the idea...

Anyway - here is my story....

Over the past few years, the rusting spots on Jen's '89 964 C4 had really become bothersome. You see them, and pretend they don't exist, until well - they become the ONLY thing you see when you look at the car... Her 964 began developing some issues around the windshield, rear window - and strangely - on the right rear quarter panel (wheel arch???)... As many of you know, this is a garaged everyday driver for us along with my 993 C4. We love our cars and the get washed top/underside year round, especially during the winter months...

Anyway - once we made the decision to see what we could do about it - the real challenge began - finding the right professional shop who would take the time, take the care - and have the talent - to do our 964 "right"... As you can probably guess - it's a daunting task.. Typical "restoration" shops are far away and have many years back-log. Quality "Porsche Specialty" shops are equally as difficult to find - or book time in...

So - we figured we'd try to find a local "craftsman". You know, a shop that cares more about the customer, the car, their workmanship and the final product than they do about slapping on some bondo and a "coat of paint" - or turning the next insurance claim...

After a long search - Jen & I found a shop - AND IT IS LOCAL to us!! This shop came recommended by a previous customer, so I called the owner and scheduled an appointment to meet him and have him share his thoughts... In a short time - I learned this young man is one of the finest body artisans it was my pleasure to meet and work with - Jason at Mirror Image Auto (http://www.mirrorimageauto.com/) and this post is as much about his work as it is about the restoration of our 964 - and we couldn't be more thrilled......

So - following is a little post about what we started with, what he worked with - what he CRAFTED from scratch - and the final product.

The start.. Notice the windshield pillar.. When the windshield was removed - there were several other rust spots that were removed as well - even though they were hidden by the windshield gasket/sealant):

------
The rust bubbles by the rear glass. Again, more were found when the rear glass was removed:

-----
After the rear window removal you can see how deep and widespread the problem was:

-----
And the strangest place of all - on the right rear fender flare:

-----
The process begins - grinding away the rust areas (I didn't want to see this part ):

Pillar:

-----

One of the rear window areas:

OK - I could go on and on with pictures with "rusty stuff" - but I won't... Rather - I will go on and on about how all that was fixed.... In the next pictures - you will see a new windshield pillar that was FABRICATED from six smaller pieces by Jason - and seam/stitched welded together, hand beaten into shape - and finally welded into place. Further - he treated it from the INSIDE of the pillar with rust preventative.. Ready? This is *art* - can you see where the new metal was welded in? I can't - either with the naked eye or with the camera - or by running my fingers lightly over ANY part of the fix. It looks like it was the same metal that left the factory.......

OK - so how about the rest of the spots.....???

Rear window area:

And after the fix (the paint matches EXACTLY - I can not see any blend areas - this is incredible!):

And oh - that tiny hole in the fender area after being rebuilt, painted? Have a look:

And the pillar area? I still can't see where the "fix is" and all the other fixes.....

To Jason at Mirror Image

THANK YOU!!!!

Absolutely stunning craftsmanship.... Simply amazing! Ferry Porsche would be proud...

John

d964 · 11-02-2009, 08:14 PM

The hard part today is to find someone who LOVES what they are doing.
This gentleman LOVES his trade, Good for him.(and you)
Dwane

John D. · 11-02-2009, 08:29 PM

Hi Dwane!

I agree with you 110%. Frankly - until I met him, I had my doubts as I'm a "type A+" about Jen's and my Porsches' and our gut impression before meeting this young man was to take it to an "established" Porsche restoration shop - and wait the wait and don't ask questions... This young kid - who I admire tremendously after seeing his work - is an asset to his trade and himself... So much so - after seeing what he did with our 964, will have my 993 C4 for that "rustoration" in the next week or two...

I think you are right as well - this gentleman loves his trade and is talent - and I'm lucky to have stumbled across him....

John

groovzilla · 11-02-2009, 09:04 PM

what was the cost to have the work done?

John D. · 11-02-2009, 09:14 PM

Hi William..!

It was $2600 including a new OEM windshield, gaskets, paint, body and labor - then he also detailed it after (interior/exterior) and even removed a bit of curb rash from one of the wheels just to make it "look right" in his view. And oh - he also resprayed/blended the rockers as he didn't like the stone chips...?

John

911URGE · 11-02-2009, 09:20 PM

What a timely post. My 89 C4 goes in for similar rust repair next week. Im looking at $2500 with new windshield. This also includes a small dent repair and a respray of the mirrors & engine lid due to an old paint defect.

The shop Im using was used to repaint my fathers 68 912 so I know the quality Im getting already. This shop also has many of its street rods and custom cars in magazines.

John D. · 11-02-2009, 10:00 PM

Hey Stephen!

I hope yours turns out as mine and you are equally as pleased!! Post pictures, OK??? Sounds like your work and mine are about the same.. Also - do you have rust in the corners of both the front and rear glass?? (BTW - I still have NO idea where the rust/hole came from on the right rear quarter/arch..??!!

)

Best to you - and good luck with your project!

John

d964 · 11-02-2009, 10:37 PM

I emailed Jason to compliment his good work!

That's another thing people forget.(appreciate a job well done)
How old is this "kid" Jason?
Dwane

John D. · 11-02-2009, 10:47 PM

Hey Dwane!

My thanks for e-mailing him!! I'm sure he'll appreciate it (and surprised as I haven't even told him I've posted this..!!)... My guess as to his age is probably mid-twenties..???

Dwane - my thanks again!

John

GeorgeK · 11-03-2009, 04:32 AM

Thta is first class work. Rare to find someone who thinks just like you, won't settle for less than perfect, and the knowledge that it will never come up again.

JDD · 11-03-2009, 12:05 PM

Has anyone had this type of repair done in the NY/NJ area? I have a quote from a local shop but, was concerned when he started talking about grinding and FILLING. This thread illustrates the correct fix.

911Jetta · 11-03-2009, 12:14 PM

John,
Many thanks for posting your experience. The write up, with pictures was very helpful!
That's the quality of repair that I'll be looking for when it's my turn (have small bubbles with a pitted windshield). I'm bring your pictures with me!

tgage · 11-03-2009, 08:56 PM

Great job!

Hey, when a shop repairs rust on a structural section of the car, do they do it with bondo or weld a metal sheet back in (say if it were on one of the pillars)?

tom

JDD · 11-04-2009, 10:40 AM

John,

Which springs do you have on your car?

Justin

John D. · 11-04-2009, 01:58 PM

Hi Justin!

They are H&Rs - and I'm still playing with the ride height a bit... Why do you ask?

Best to you!

John

11-02-2009, 07:36 PM	#1
John D. Rennlist Join Date: May 1998 Location: Somewhere.... Posts: 8,501	Rust Repair - 101.... Every once in a while - the Porsche God smiles in my direction - or - sometimes a blind nut finds a squirrel - or - sometimes even a hog finds a truffle - or.... Well - you get the idea... Anyway - here is my story.... Over the past few years, the rusting spots on Jen's '89 964 C4 had really become bothersome. You see them, and pretend they don't exist, until well - they become the ONLY thing you see when you look at the car... Her 964 began developing some issues around the windshield, rear window - and strangely - on the right rear quarter panel (wheel arch???)... As many of you know, this is a garaged everyday driver for us along with my 993 C4. We love our cars and the get washed top/underside year round, especially during the winter months... Anyway - once we made the decision to see what we could do about it - the real challenge began - finding the right professional shop who would take the time, take the care - and have the talent - to do our 964 "right"... As you can probably guess - it's a daunting task.. Typical "restoration" shops are far away and have many years back-log. Quality "Porsche Specialty" shops are equally as difficult to find - or book time in... So - we figured we'd try to find a local "craftsman". You know, a shop that cares more about the customer, the car, their workmanship and the final product than they do about slapping on some bondo and a "coat of paint" - or turning the next insurance claim... After a long search - Jen & I found a shop - AND IT IS LOCAL to us!! This shop came recommended by a previous customer, so I called the owner and scheduled an appointment to meet him and have him share his thoughts... In a short time - I learned this young man is one of the finest body artisans it was my pleasure to meet and work with - Jason at Mirror Image Auto (http://www.mirrorimageauto.com/) and this post is as much about his work as it is about the restoration of our 964 - and we couldn't be more thrilled...... So - following is a little post about what we started with, what he worked with - what he CRAFTED from scratch - and the final product. The start.. Notice the windshield pillar.. When the windshield was removed - there were several other rust spots that were removed as well - even though they were hidden by the windshield gasket/sealant): ------ The rust bubbles by the rear glass. Again, more were found when the rear glass was removed: ----- After the rear window removal you can see how deep and widespread the problem was: ----- And the strangest place of all - on the right rear fender flare: ----- The process begins - grinding away the rust areas (I didn't want to see this part ): Pillar: ----- One of the rear window areas: OK - I could go on and on with pictures with "rusty stuff" - but I won't... Rather - I will go on and on about how all that was fixed.... In the next pictures - you will see a new windshield pillar that was FABRICATED from six smaller pieces by Jason - and seam/stitched welded together, hand beaten into shape - and finally welded into place. Further - he treated it from the INSIDE of the pillar with rust preventative.. Ready? This is art - can you see where the new metal was welded in? I can't - either with the naked eye or with the camera - or by running my fingers lightly over ANY part of the fix. It looks like it was the same metal that left the factory....... OK - so how about the rest of the spots.....??? Rear window area: And after the fix (the paint matches EXACTLY - I can not see any blend areas - this is incredible!): And oh - that tiny hole in the fender area after being rebuilt, painted? Have a look: And the pillar area? I still can't see where the "fix is" and all the other fixes..... To Jason at Mirror Image THANK YOU!!!! Absolutely stunning craftsmanship.... Simply amazing! Ferry Porsche would be proud... John __________________ '95 993 C4 '89 964 C4 (<- Jen's...) '68 911 L (<- Jen's...) *Don't Panic* - it's just me, John D.(<- Jen's...) posting as me.... Team Geek & Sunday Driver for “Hey, Wait For Me Racing” Giving new meaning to the term *“Frozen Rotors”*

11-02-2009, 08:29 PM	#3
John D. Rennlist Join Date: May 1998 Location: Somewhere.... Posts: 8,501	Hi Dwane! I agree with you 110%. Frankly - until I met him, I had my doubts as I'm a "type A+" about Jen's and my Porsches' and our gut impression before meeting this young man was to take it to an "established" Porsche restoration shop - and wait the wait and don't ask questions... This young kid - who I admire tremendously after seeing his work - is an asset to his trade and himself... So much so - after seeing what he did with our 964, will have my 993 C4 for that "rustoration" in the next week or two... I think you are right as well - this gentleman loves his trade and is talent - and I'm lucky to have stumbled across him.... John __________________ '95 993 C4 '89 964 C4 (<- Jen's...) '68 911 L (<- Jen's...) *Don't Panic* - it's just me, John D.(<- Jen's...) posting as me.... Team Geek & Sunday Driver for “Hey, Wait For Me Racing” Giving new meaning to the term *“Frozen Rotors”*

11-02-2009, 09:04 PM	#4
groovzilla Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: seattle, washington Posts: 486	what was the cost to have the work done? __________________ william - 1990 964 C2 coupe.....silver/black - 1959 356A super sunroof...silver/black 1995 993 C2 - polar silver/black - 6 speed - upgraded motor mounts - short shift kit - M030 lowering kit....sold 2009 1996 993 carrera 4 ...........polar silver/black...sold 2008 1979 ferrari 308 ...............red/black...sold...sold 2006 1986-2005...lots of 356's and 911's

11-02-2009, 09:14 PM	#5
John D. Rennlist Join Date: May 1998 Location: Somewhere.... Posts: 8,501	Hi William..! It was $2600 including a new OEM windshield, gaskets, paint, body and labor - then he also detailed it after (interior/exterior) and even removed a bit of curb rash from one of the wheels just to make it "look right" in his view. And oh - he also resprayed/blended the rockers as he didn't like the stone chips...? John __________________ '95 993 C4 '89 964 C4 (<- Jen's...) '68 911 L (<- Jen's...) *Don't Panic* - it's just me, John D.(<- Jen's...) posting as me.... Team Geek & Sunday Driver for “Hey, Wait For Me Racing” Giving new meaning to the term *“Frozen Rotors”*

11-02-2009, 09:20 PM	#6
911URGE Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: SoCal Posts: 1,136	What a timely post. My 89 C4 goes in for similar rust repair next week. Im looking at $2500 with new windshield. This also includes a small dent repair and a respray of the mirrors & engine lid due to an old paint defect. The shop Im using was used to repaint my fathers 68 912 so I know the quality Im getting already. This shop also has many of its street rods and custom cars in magazines. __________________ Stephen 1989 Carrera 4 - Guards Red Andial Sport Exhaust & Chip, Andial Strut Brace, Eibach Springs, Techart Pedals, Cup II Rims, Porsche Design/Momo Wheel, Aero Mirrors, Clear Corners. My 964 Photo Album / The 964 VIN Project Save the Flash Motors4Toys Charity Car Show

11-02-2009, 08:14 PM	#2
d964 Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Montreal Posts: 681	The hard part today is to find someone who LOVES what they are doing. This gentleman LOVES his trade, Good for him.(and you) Dwane

11-02-2009, 10:00 PM	#7
John D. Rennlist Join Date: May 1998 Location: Somewhere.... Posts: 8,501	Hey Stephen! I hope yours turns out as mine and you are equally as pleased!! Post pictures, OK??? Sounds like your work and mine are about the same.. Also - do you have rust in the corners of both the front and rear glass?? (BTW - I still have NO idea where the rust/hole came from on the right rear quarter/arch..??!! ) Best to you - and good luck with your project! John __________________ '95 993 C4 '89 964 C4 (<- Jen's...) '68 911 L (<- Jen's...) *Don't Panic* - it's just me, John D.(<- Jen's...) posting as me.... Team Geek & Sunday Driver for “Hey, Wait For Me Racing” Giving new meaning to the term *“Frozen Rotors”*

11-02-2009, 10:37 PM	#8
d964 Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Montreal Posts: 681	I emailed Jason to compliment his good work! That's another thing people forget.(appreciate a job well done) How old is this "kid" Jason? Dwane

11-02-2009, 10:47 PM	#9
John D. Rennlist Join Date: May 1998 Location: Somewhere.... Posts: 8,501	Hey Dwane! My thanks for e-mailing him!! I'm sure he'll appreciate it (and surprised as I haven't even told him I've posted this..!!)... My guess as to his age is probably mid-twenties..??? Dwane - my thanks again! John __________________ '95 993 C4 '89 964 C4 (<- Jen's...) '68 911 L (<- Jen's...) *Don't Panic* - it's just me, John D.(<- Jen's...) posting as me.... Team Geek & Sunday Driver for “Hey, Wait For Me Racing” Giving new meaning to the term *“Frozen Rotors”*

11-03-2009, 04:32 AM	#10
GeorgeK Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Switzerland Posts: 344	Thta is first class work. Rare to find someone who thinks just like you, won't settle for less than perfect, and the knowledge that it will never come up again. __________________ GeorgeK '89 C4 Codename Shrek

11-03-2009, 12:05 PM	#11
JDD User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Central, NJ Posts: 75	Has anyone had this type of repair done in the NY/NJ area? I have a quote from a local shop but, was concerned when he started talking about grinding and FILLING. This thread illustrates the correct fix.

11-03-2009, 12:14 PM	#12
911Jetta Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Chapel Hill, NC Posts: 235	John, Many thanks for posting your experience. The write up, with pictures was very helpful! That's the quality of repair that I'll be looking for when it's my turn (have small bubbles with a pitted windshield). I'm bring your pictures with me! __________________ '90 C2 Slate Grey - http://picasaweb.google.com/udoreisinger2 R Gruppe bicycles - Cannondale, Titus, Specialized, Bridgestone, Raleigh, and Scattante TT bike

11-03-2009, 08:56 PM	#13
tgage Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Atlanta Posts: 179	Great job! Hey, when a shop repairs rust on a structural section of the car, do they do it with bondo or weld a metal sheet back in (say if it were on one of the pillars)? tom __________________ 1991 C4 Coupe 1991 C2 Targa 1988 944 Work for AutoTrader.com

11-04-2009, 10:40 AM	#14
JDD User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Central, NJ Posts: 75	John, Which springs do you have on your car? Justin

11-04-2009, 01:58 PM	#15
John D. Rennlist Join Date: May 1998 Location: Somewhere.... Posts: 8,501	Hi Justin! They are H&Rs - and I'm still playing with the ride height a bit... Why do you ask? Best to you! John __________________ '95 993 C4 '89 964 C4 (<- Jen's...) '68 911 L (<- Jen's...) *Don't Panic* - it's just me, John D.(<- Jen's...) posting as me.... Team Geek & Sunday Driver for “Hey, Wait For Me Racing” Giving new meaning to the term *“Frozen Rotors”*