964 purchase info/advice
07-18-2010, 06:08 PM
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964 purchase info/advice
hi. I am looking at purchasing a 911 Targa to be used as a daily driver. My research so far indicates that the 964 will be the most comfortable/useable of the Targa (removable roof) models of 911s. So, any advice on what I should look for would be appreciated. I think I would like a C4 due to living in the mountains and the little bit of snow we get but don't really know if it is worth searching for one of those in terms of every day driving benefit.
One question I have concerns mileage. I have found a couple "low mileage" (under 70K) cars and am wondering if this is "too few" given the cars age. Are there common issues that arise with increased mileage that would have been taken care of in a car with 125K miles or more?
Another thought is to get a 1985 or so Targa as they seem more common. The information I am getting is that it won't be as comfortable as a daily driver but might be cheaper to purchase and maintain. My only Porsche experience is as a Boxster owner - we loved the car - but we have a son now and I have always wanted a 911. Thanks for reading my rambling and any/all thoughts are appreciated.
One question I have concerns mileage. I have found a couple "low mileage" (under 70K) cars and am wondering if this is "too few" given the cars age. Are there common issues that arise with increased mileage that would have been taken care of in a car with 125K miles or more?
Another thought is to get a 1985 or so Targa as they seem more common. The information I am getting is that it won't be as comfortable as a daily driver but might be cheaper to purchase and maintain. My only Porsche experience is as a Boxster owner - we loved the car - but we have a son now and I have always wanted a 911. Thanks for reading my rambling and any/all thoughts are appreciated.
07-18-2010, 07:11 PM
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hi. I am looking at purchasing a 911 Targa to be used as a daily driver. My research so far indicates that the 964 will be the most comfortable/useable of the Targa (removable roof) models of 911s. So, any advice on what I should look for would be appreciated. I think I would like a C4 due to living in the mountains and the little bit of snow we get but don't really know if it is worth searching for one of those in terms of every day driving benefit.
One question I have concerns mileage. I have found a couple "low mileage" (under 70K) cars and am wondering if this is "too few" given the cars age. Are there common issues that arise with increased mileage that would have been taken care of in a car with 125K miles or more?
Another thought is to get a 1985 or so Targa as they seem more common. The information I am getting is that it won't be as comfortable as a daily driver but might be cheaper to purchase and maintain. My only Porsche experience is as a Boxster owner - we loved the car - but we have a son now and I have always wanted a 911. Thanks for reading my rambling and any/all thoughts are appreciated.
One question I have concerns mileage. I have found a couple "low mileage" (under 70K) cars and am wondering if this is "too few" given the cars age. Are there common issues that arise with increased mileage that would have been taken care of in a car with 125K miles or more?
Another thought is to get a 1985 or so Targa as they seem more common. The information I am getting is that it won't be as comfortable as a daily driver but might be cheaper to purchase and maintain. My only Porsche experience is as a Boxster owner - we loved the car - but we have a son now and I have always wanted a 911. Thanks for reading my rambling and any/all thoughts are appreciated.
07-18-2010, 07:18 PM
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Thanks for your thoughts. Can you expand on your comment about the 3.2's being "crude"? Growing up, my Mom drove 20 year old mid-60's Corvettes which were, um, "basic". A/C is a concern which is driving the 964 vs. 3.2 option. I am trying not to let me emotions get the better of me but the mid-80's 911's are the ones that drove my passion in high school. Thanks for taking the time to share. Chris
07-18-2010, 08:07 PM
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Chris, I hope this helps in your decision from Independent Porsche Specialist buying tip:
"A low mileage car is worth more than a high mileage car? Yes, this is a fact, but is it better and more reliable? Not always.
The first thing you will learn is that you have to buy your car on condition and not mileage. A car with 70,000 miles that has been more or less serviced every 15,000 miles (give or take) is not better than a 120,000 Mile car that has been to an Official Porsche Centre all its life and had an engine rebuild at 90,000 miles.
Many high mile Porsches are so because of highway mileage, this type of mileage is not so much of a strain on the engine and in many cases high mileage well maintained after cars offer great value.
Remember buy on condition..."
I have a well maintained 1990 C4 with 114k miles; no leaks, no rust and lots of maintenance receipts from previous owner. Good luck!
"A low mileage car is worth more than a high mileage car? Yes, this is a fact, but is it better and more reliable? Not always.
The first thing you will learn is that you have to buy your car on condition and not mileage. A car with 70,000 miles that has been more or less serviced every 15,000 miles (give or take) is not better than a 120,000 Mile car that has been to an Official Porsche Centre all its life and had an engine rebuild at 90,000 miles.
Many high mile Porsches are so because of highway mileage, this type of mileage is not so much of a strain on the engine and in many cases high mileage well maintained after cars offer great value.
Remember buy on condition..."
I have a well maintained 1990 C4 with 114k miles; no leaks, no rust and lots of maintenance receipts from previous owner. Good luck!
07-18-2010, 08:16 PM
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Can you offer thoughts on the benefits/differences between a 2 and a 4? Is it something that is important/beneficial in every day driving or just useful in snow/extreme conditions (I am not sure exactly how the 4 system works - AWD vs. true 4 WD). Thanks.
07-18-2010, 08:54 PM
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Chirs- here's the rest of buying tips from Independent Porsche Specialist regarding 911 3.2 vs 964:
The Porsche 911 964; it’s a car that feels much more modern and refined than the 911 3.2 it replaced, yet it largely retained the wonderful classic style of the original 911. Indeed, the 964 doesn’t feel that much different to the 993, the 911 that came after it, and which is more sought after but much more expensive to buy.
The cost? Well, here in the United Kingdom a 964 could be yours for as little as £13,000 if you don’t mind left-hand drive. Decent right-hand drive’s start at around £17,000. Cheaper 911’s are available but there are some points that need looking into or your 911 could soon become a money pit.
The 964 was built from 1989 to 1993. At the time of its launch it was claimed by Porsche to be 87 per cent new compared with the Carrera 3.2, the main reason being the inclusion of much technology from the 959 supercar, not least the four-wheel-drive transmission. Other advances over the Carrera 3.2 included coilspring suspension, anti-lock brakes, and an electronically controlled heating system. The 911, at long last, was in danger of actually seeming quite modern.
Although the basic 911 body shape remained unchanged (at least on the surface; underneath it was much altered to accommodate the new suspension and transmission), it now featured deformable front and rear bumpers, and a neat retractable spoiler. This last item raised automatically at 50mph to give much-needed downforce, and it also aided engine cooling. It then retracted when the car’s speed dropped below 7mph, so the 911’s classic profile was maintained. It was a neat trick that earned the new car a lot of attention.
The engine, too, was updated. Still loosely based on that of the Carrera 3.2, it was increased in capacity to 3.6 litres. Dual distributors fed two spark plugs per cylinder; these were claimed to improve combustion efficiency and thus allow the ignition timing to be retarded, allowing the engine to run on 95-octane fuel even though the compression ratio was still a relatively high 11.3:1.
The cylinder heads were new, and featured ceramic liners for the exhaust ports, claimed to reduce head temperatures by as much as 40 degrees Celsius. Cooling was further improved by a 12-blade fan, while an enlarged front-mounted oil-cooler eliminated the need for an engine-mounted cooler as in the previous cars.
A new Bosch Motronic engine-management system looked after both the ignition and fuelinjection systems. Maximum power was claimed to be 250bhp at 6100rpm – a useful increase over the Carrera 3.2’s 231bhp.
In the case of the Carrera 4 – the first 964 to appear – power was fed to all four wheels via Porsche’s all-new G64 gearbox, and a viscous-coupling centre differential with a rear-biased torque split. The rear-drive version, the Carrera 2, appeared in 1990, this using an updated version of the G50 gearbox from the Carrera 3.2.
Also in 1990 came the Targa and Cabriolet, both models available in two and four-wheel-drive forms. And in the same year Tiptronic transmission was offered for the first time in a 911, with fully automatic and semi-automatic sequential modes. Tiptronic was available only in the Carrera 2, though.
Do a rennlist search on C4 for more info re: C2 vs C4. Here's a couple of threads I think is useful, especially the one by Adrian:
https://rennlist.com/forums/964-foru...-c2-vs-c4.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/964-foru...ity-vs-c2.html
Good luck
The Porsche 911 964; it’s a car that feels much more modern and refined than the 911 3.2 it replaced, yet it largely retained the wonderful classic style of the original 911. Indeed, the 964 doesn’t feel that much different to the 993, the 911 that came after it, and which is more sought after but much more expensive to buy.
The cost? Well, here in the United Kingdom a 964 could be yours for as little as £13,000 if you don’t mind left-hand drive. Decent right-hand drive’s start at around £17,000. Cheaper 911’s are available but there are some points that need looking into or your 911 could soon become a money pit.
The 964 was built from 1989 to 1993. At the time of its launch it was claimed by Porsche to be 87 per cent new compared with the Carrera 3.2, the main reason being the inclusion of much technology from the 959 supercar, not least the four-wheel-drive transmission. Other advances over the Carrera 3.2 included coilspring suspension, anti-lock brakes, and an electronically controlled heating system. The 911, at long last, was in danger of actually seeming quite modern.
Although the basic 911 body shape remained unchanged (at least on the surface; underneath it was much altered to accommodate the new suspension and transmission), it now featured deformable front and rear bumpers, and a neat retractable spoiler. This last item raised automatically at 50mph to give much-needed downforce, and it also aided engine cooling. It then retracted when the car’s speed dropped below 7mph, so the 911’s classic profile was maintained. It was a neat trick that earned the new car a lot of attention.
The engine, too, was updated. Still loosely based on that of the Carrera 3.2, it was increased in capacity to 3.6 litres. Dual distributors fed two spark plugs per cylinder; these were claimed to improve combustion efficiency and thus allow the ignition timing to be retarded, allowing the engine to run on 95-octane fuel even though the compression ratio was still a relatively high 11.3:1.
The cylinder heads were new, and featured ceramic liners for the exhaust ports, claimed to reduce head temperatures by as much as 40 degrees Celsius. Cooling was further improved by a 12-blade fan, while an enlarged front-mounted oil-cooler eliminated the need for an engine-mounted cooler as in the previous cars.
A new Bosch Motronic engine-management system looked after both the ignition and fuelinjection systems. Maximum power was claimed to be 250bhp at 6100rpm – a useful increase over the Carrera 3.2’s 231bhp.
In the case of the Carrera 4 – the first 964 to appear – power was fed to all four wheels via Porsche’s all-new G64 gearbox, and a viscous-coupling centre differential with a rear-biased torque split. The rear-drive version, the Carrera 2, appeared in 1990, this using an updated version of the G50 gearbox from the Carrera 3.2.
Also in 1990 came the Targa and Cabriolet, both models available in two and four-wheel-drive forms. And in the same year Tiptronic transmission was offered for the first time in a 911, with fully automatic and semi-automatic sequential modes. Tiptronic was available only in the Carrera 2, though.
Do a rennlist search on C4 for more info re: C2 vs C4. Here's a couple of threads I think is useful, especially the one by Adrian:
https://rennlist.com/forums/964-foru...-c2-vs-c4.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/964-foru...ity-vs-c2.html
Good luck
07-18-2010, 11:02 PM
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Chris, I've owned an '86 Targa, an '01 Boxster, and now a '91 C4 coupe. I can say without question I love my C4 coupe over the Targa. I hated the lack of power steering and the poor A/C, even worse heater of the Targa which prompted me to trade it in on the Boxster. The Targa top also has nowhere to be stored, won't fit in the trunk, and I'm assuming you want to use the back seat for the kid so no dice. My C4 is nowhere near refined as the boxster, but I can put my 1 year old twin boys in the back, so there's the trade off.
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07-19-2010, 02:11 PM
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My Dad had a 84 Carrera and it was a fun car but I would not want to use it as a daily driver. I agree with others the 964 offers much better comfort (a/c, clutch, power steering)while still offering the fairly raw and sensory 911 experience. Definitely invest in a thorough PPI by a Porsche specialist!!
07-19-2010, 04:41 PM
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Chris,
I think the others have pretty well covered the crude issue that I brought up. Don't get me wrong the 3.2 Carrera's are great cars but are really old in terms of engineering and they fell it when you are behind the wheel. I originally wanted the 3.2 as well and when I learned more I bought a 964. Had a chance to drive a 3.2 more recently and it really drove the point home to me how crude they feel overall to a 964. The 964 is actually a much more modern car but it is still raw enough in nature to feel connected to, but can cruise in relative comfort on a 90 degree day with the windows up and AC on. It would be tough to do that in a 3.2.
I think the others have pretty well covered the crude issue that I brought up. Don't get me wrong the 3.2 Carrera's are great cars but are really old in terms of engineering and they fell it when you are behind the wheel. I originally wanted the 3.2 as well and when I learned more I bought a 964. Had a chance to drive a 3.2 more recently and it really drove the point home to me how crude they feel overall to a 964. The 964 is actually a much more modern car but it is still raw enough in nature to feel connected to, but can cruise in relative comfort on a 90 degree day with the windows up and AC on. It would be tough to do that in a 3.2.
07-19-2010, 06:13 PM
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I went through the same decision process a few years back when I bought my first (and only) 911. I even wanted a Targa as you seem to desire. Drove an 88 911 and a 91 C2 for comparison. The 88 was a little old feeling due to lack of power steering and the longer throw shifter. Also wanted the airbag and ABS offered in the 964. Last, but not least, a notable bump in performance going to the 3.6L over the 3.2L. IMO, the 964 is just right because it looks/feels classic but performs well. Good luck!
07-24-2010, 09:03 AM
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Hi Chris
I have a 964 C4 Targa, a great piece of technology for your money. I thrash the nuts off it and it is virtually bullet proof. My 964 has 75,000 miles on it, a few oil leaks, the roof drips a little bit when it rains but not when its moving... most 20 year old cars leak oil... I can recommend the C4 for everyday driving.
I have a 964 C4 Targa, a great piece of technology for your money. I thrash the nuts off it and it is virtually bullet proof. My 964 has 75,000 miles on it, a few oil leaks, the roof drips a little bit when it rains but not when its moving... most 20 year old cars leak oil... I can recommend the C4 for everyday driving.
07-24-2010, 04:35 PM
#14
One question I have concerns mileage. I have found a couple "low mileage" (under 70K) cars and am wondering if this is "too few" given the cars age. Are there common issues that arise with increased mileage that would have been taken care of in a car with 125K miles or more?
I have two kids and the glass (and no top) gives them a bit more of the "Porsche" experience (important because this is a fun car for us). The 964 Targa has it's quirks but it is a classic design on a greatly improved platform.
