Jay H

benz, you have a PM...

raspberryroadster

unlikely ICBC will accept anything except specific info from Porsche (and preferably Porsche N.Amer.) for your application for collector status (been there / done that).
you might try the turbo forum for assistance...........

cobalt

If you are looking for only 1992 production numbers you should be in luck based on published numbers in Adrian's book along with other sources you should be closer to the 1000 mark for all 3.3 turbos produced for the 1992 MY. You might try contacting PCNA. Will they accept a letter from a club or other potential authority? Another thing to consider is most published numbers used vin numbers starting at 001 when in fact for US requirements the first 60 cars were supposedly destroyed as test mules so vin numbers for each model year actually begin with 0061 so there are fewer made than we originally thought.

Most published US numbers show 289 turbos made plus 20 S2's when i check vin information I come up with a total of 248 including the 20 S2's first vin number starting at 061 and last at 308. Seems 308 is a heavily optioned car also.

I don't have ROW vin info to check on but I am sure you are well below the 1500 units for MY 92 however there were far more made in 1991 and I don't know if they combine like models or not in Canada.

benzyne

Cobalt, any sources that you have would be much appreciated.

PCNA says via their "research department", regarding production numbers: "That is information that we can not obtain nor release to the public".

TL-Register

964770 Turbo : 4849 ( 3582 ROW + 1267 USA )
964771 Turbo RHD : 412

964770 Turbo MJ 1992 : 937 ( 689 ROW )


Norbert

benzyne

Norbert, do you have the numbers specific to 1992 MY, and a published source?

cobalt

I believe he has already given you the correct info the question is how do you prove his numbers are correct to those requiring objective documentation? It is one thing to know but another to prove. With no source like PCNA or Porsche AG to verify what Norbert is saying how do you present it?

boxsey911

The 964 buyer's guide by Peter Morgan that I bought 4 years ago has a table of model types and chassis numbers which he says are derived from Porsche's own production data. For MY92 turbos he lists:

Turbo WPOZZZ96ZNS470001-836
Turbo US WPOAA296_NS480001-309
Turbo S WPOZZZ96ZPS479001-081

Interestingly they all have the same list of engine numbers which are:

61N00501-01605

Does that help?

cobalt

Actually we have learned since then that there are no vin numbers either US or ROW that begin in 001 through 060 all vin numbers begin with 061 so there are less than we originally thought. Norbert has this down.

I find it interesting that the turbo 92 ROW turbo S gets it's own vin series yet the 94 turbo S doesn't.

benzyne

EXACTLY. Which is why I asked him for a source ... hoping that he had a little piece of paper with a Porsche logo on it and numbers listed.

Adrian emailed me back and indicated that EU data protection laws does not allow for information to be freely shared any more.

It seems that production numbers are now being treated like matters of national security these days.

PNine64

I'm sorry, I would like to make sure I completely understand what you are saying. It appears that for each VIN series there are none between 001 and 060 (regardless of Turbo, Targa, Coupe or Cab). Would the Targa below be the first one for 1993 then?

If so, then Adrian listed 137 Targas being brought into the states in 1993. Does that mean the VINs should go up to 197 or the quantity goes down to 77?

I appreciate your help.

TL-Register

Peter Morgans Book is one of the best Porsche Books for the older ones - but in case of the 964 he made lots of mistakes ...

WP0 - always a number(0) not an O ! - ZZZ96NS470061 - 0835
WP0AA2966NS480061 - 0308
WP0ZZZ96ZPS499061 - 9086

and i´m sorry to write this : nearly every count in Adrian´s 964 Companion is a bit or totaly wrong !

and as the "TurboS" from 1993 was not on my lists yesterday and i forgot the RHD (964771) , i have to correct myself too :
( you see its very difficult to keep the statements correct )

Turbo Total : 5287 - ( 1267 USA )


Norbert ( www.turbo-look.com)

P.S : These are the counts i could find and i have prove for - i´m not able to say if they are 100 % correct !

boxsey911

Just to add on to the information given by Cobalt and Norbert above, I later found that Peter has the following footnote at the end of his VIN tables in his book:

"The first 60 serial numbers of each VIN is usually reserved for internal use"

TL-Register

PS440061 is the very first US Targa MJ 1993
PS440137 the last !

followed by 20 units in 1994 MJ ( 0061-0081 )

so not only a great colored car !!

Best

Norbert ( www.turbo-look.com)

cobalt

This becomes rather complicated. I had dealt with Adrian when he was in the process of compiling numbers. In fairness to him he had stacks of paperwork to sort through with no guidance or help. So much information has not been made available from the factory and Adrian was not aware of the M718 code based on the information he was provided. It becomes complicated due to the differences in ROW and US VIN requirements. The numbering starting with 61 was also something that Porsche did not disclose. It is possible some cars remain and might have been used for racing or other programs as I doubt Porsche destroyed 60 cars of each model especially when in some cases very few cars were produced. We do know that there are no street legal registered cars that have vin numbers from 001 to 060.

In fairness to Adrian, he did a great job deciphering a ton of info that was previously unknown. However, I agree his numbers as are most everyone's inaccurate. Basically other than a few duplicates for M718 cars you can trust his numbers if you subtract the first 60 VIN numbers from each MY. Although there are some weird cases.

Norbert has now taken things a step further and has shown us that there are fewer cars than originally thought and he has spent a lot of time uncovering a lot of information. There have been some cars that we are still not sure of and as he digs deeper into the info may prove he is 100% correct. I find his counts to be the most accurate so far however there is no way to obtain objective documentation from the source Porsche AG or PCNA which is disturbing to say the least.

So as it is easier for us to accept the production numbers of a specific model that has its own code we are finding additional hurtles proving some rare one off cars that might exist. I hope he will find a way to obtain objective documentation from the factory. He is quite resourceful and I am sure it is just a matter of time.

Meanwhile the green targa is sweet and as Norbert said appears to be the first Vin for that year.