Ken D

The factory documentation claims that Speedline also manufactured 17" one-piece versions of the "Cup 1" wheel. I've never, ever seen one. However MRH has a set on his Euro Cup. Hopefully he or another Euro Cup owner can provide pictures.

cobalt

There are two different manufacturers for the Cup I's in 7 & 8" sizes there is only one manufacturer for the 7.5", 9" and 9.5" cup I's

Is SM the designation for Speedline? I have never seen a speedline 3 piece with the SM marking?

The mag wheels Cup I's and the GT2 EVO speedlines had flat backs. don't have any pictures of the rear mag speedlines but I posted pictures of the mag centered fronts.

The pictures show the differences between the .00 and .01's. I did not weigh them but it feels as though the .01 is lighter. You can see the SM marking on the .01 and both show same aluminum alloy used this is the same alloy used on most critical parts including the engine case halves and some valve covers (non painted version. The painted version valve covers are magnesium.) I am not sure but I am assuming the euro designation of the alloy is stating aluminum as the primary material with 7% Si and 0.4% magnesium. Unlike aircraft alloys used here in the US which are known as A356 or C355 aluminum.

I once made cylinders for Joe Nastasi of Nastasi racing Lamborgini fame and used C355T61 aluminum alloy, strong stuff and will handle heat beautifully. He ran the last half of an enduro race in one of his Alfa's at Limerock without any coolant and won the race. Their was no signs of any damage. The cylinders lasted another ten races before a rod went through the cylinder wall.

Here are some pictures hope this helps. BTW either wheel is as good as the other.

Ken D

No, SM = Stahlschmidt & Maiworm GmbH who are a subsidiary of ATS.

cobalt

That is what I thought figured someone would answer.

Cupcar

Thanks Chris, I decided to come over to see what the 964 guys were doing. I sold my Cup #592 to a guy in NorCal. Being more of a mechanic than a collector, I needed a project so started building a 993 just to have something new. This needs update but going here you can see what I am doing https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...e-for-you.html

I looked through my pictures and I don't have any of the back of a set of Cup 1 wheels.

My understanding at the time was that all the Cup 1 aluminum wheels in 7, 8, 9 & 9.5" were made by Speedline for Porsche. They even came in Speedline boxes as I recall. All of these wheels were available through the regular dealer network with the 9.5" a dealer installed option for 964 Turbos (requires a 21 mm spacer to be installed as for Cup 9.5 " installation).

The 7.5 and 9" magnesium RS wheels were produced by SM of Germany as was the spare tire for all cars, see picture of back of spare.

Your picture clearly shows that SM made aluminum Cup 1 wheels as well however.

The late 964 Carrera Cup wheels were 3 piece Speedlines with the 8" fronts being the same part number as 3.6 964 Turbo fronts and available at a Porsche dealer, the rears were a Porsche Motorsport part 9.5" ET 47 wheel just for the Carrera Cup.

[IMG][/IMG]

chfs911

I can supply pics of the backs of all of the above including the SM mags.

I have not seen the regular SM backed wheels before.

Any requests?

Cupcar

Below is a screenshot from the normal dealer catalog showing the Cup 1 9.5" Carrera Cup/Turbo wheel and the associated parts to install them. Inclusion of #3 was accidental, only the dashed items are needed to install.

[IMG][/IMG]

christallon

Awesome guys, and Bingo Cobalt. There is the SM manufactured Cup 1, in the flesh. That is the only other one of it's kind I've seen. This being said, they may be as prevelant as the other Cup 1's and I may not have noticed them before, but every Cup 1 I recall seeing, including the various Cup 1's I have in 7", 8" and 9" all look like the other Cup 1's. I have a set of Mag Cup 1's as well, and they are very different. The back of the spokes are flat, and lighter of course. Is the SM version rarer than the other Cobalt? I also appreciate your writeup on the Metalurgy. I understand you are the resource on this board for such things! Cheers!!! BTW, I have seen both 00 and 01 Cup 1's that are from the same factory, so I dont think that part number is the entire difference between the two manufacturers.

CupCar, I look forward to reading through your 993 thread on your new car. I just picked up a Viper Green 96 that is RS'd out with stiffer suspension, RS sways, bucket recarros and RS wheel along with BBS LM's. Nice package but way different to the 964's. Jury is still out for me on it, but I will take some time to learn the new platform etc. I simply love the purity of the C2 5 speed 964.... It truly is the last of the Breed!!! If you have info on the guy you sold your US Cup to, would you be so kind as to PM me with it. I am on the look out for one of those too.

Thanks again everyone! Love learning!!!

chfs911.... Yes please!

cobalt

You have to love rennlist even after all these years I am always learning something new. I never knew the 3.3L 964 turbo could be optioned with a 9.5" cup I from the dealer. I have the 7 and 9.5's on my 928GTS however they are modified with the RDK tire pressure monitor sensors and look like the .00's although the 9.5's end in .05 just like the 7.5's.

My understanding is Cup I's came as:

7 & 9 .00's for the 91-92 turbo/ America roadster/ 94 C4 wide body
7 & 8" Standard for the RSA
optional 7 & 8 on the C2/C4

928 GTS Cup I
Both MY 93 versions of the 928 GTS 7.5's & 9's
The Cup II's were used on the 94 and 95 GTS's same sizes.

968 (correct me if I am mistaken)
optional 7 & 9.5

Please add if anyone knows more

The .01's are relatively rare and I have not checked the others i have seen to see who made them. I have owned a dozen or so sets of the .00's and only came across two .01's and only in the 7" size both have the SM marking. Not sure how many cars were fitted with them. I have seen a couple of RSA's with them delivered from the factory but I have not looked into it.

See below for Edit

cobalt

christallon

Can you please post a better picture of the production date? If I am correct the .00 was no longer made by speedline after 1994? and Porsche sourced SM to supply the balance of the wheels needed. Or something along those lines.

My .01 appears to be manufactured in 1995 so after final production release of Cup I's issued on Porsche's. I am assuming yours is similar.

Also I was mistaken the alloy is different on the .01 It is a higher Si content not sure if it reads 12 or 17% I would assume 12%. I will look into it or if we have a metallurgist familiar with this alloy designation that would be helpful.

MRH

I am still out of town so can't post a photo but here's something really interesting. Over on the ESR Forum, Curt Hamill just posted a Cup Car Photo from 1992 and look what's on the lip of the wheels. I have never seen that before. The Speedline marking on mine is different, actually part of the casting.

http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...446#post722446

cobalt

From what I can tell this is the alloy range for the .01 -- Al Si 12 Mg wa

Si 11.00 - 13.00%
Fe......0.80% Max
Cu......0.30% Max
Mn......0.15% Max
Mg......0.10% Max
Cr....... -
Zn.......0.20% Max
Ti........-
Be.......0.0003% Max
Others each..... 0.05% Max
Total.......0.15%max
Rem .....AL

I still cannot find anything on the alloy used in the .00 -- Al Si 7 Mg .04
However it cannot be much different than the .01 alloy
I would assume it should be similar with these changes

Si..... 06 -.08%
Mg.... .04 Max

If anyone has any info on this alloy I would be interested.

christallon

Both my 8's and 1-7" is date stamped 93, the other 7 is date stamped 92

The Si content reads 12

cobalt

Well that shoots the S**t out of my theory. Back to the drawing board

Back to possibly supplied on RSA's or they just had two suppliers.

christallon

According to Keith on RSA.net the wheels on the RSA were 00. There must have been 2 suppliers, but SM must have made a very short run. Cobalt, did you say the 01 you have pictured is from a set you own? Do you have a full set of 7 & 8's or......? Have you seen other sets like it?