Mixter

Pc007

Thanks guys for all the opinions, ill definitely will try the c4 this week so that i can make a final decision.

I also heard that the c4 system as some kind of regulator to define the percentage of power to the front axel, is this true?

StuartQ, I'm in Spain

Thanks

Andy Roe

I've owned both and whilst I prefer the C2, the C4 was still a great car and I really wouldn't worry about whether it's a C2 or C4 and just buy on condition, and condition alone.

The C4 automatically decides how much traction to put into the front wheels - you don't have any control over it. The only control you do have over the AWD system is a diff lock which you can activate when not moving if you're stuck in snow etc. This locks the diffs to allow you to get moving and deactivates automatically at around 20kph I think.

The C4 Lightweight on the other hand does have a cockpit adjustable bias system for the AWD, although they are pretty rare and one of the most expensive 964's to buy at the moment!!

Pc007

John Mcm, Wow, nice pictures!!! These cars are lovely!

John McM

Thanks. It was a great trip.

bobaines

At an event this past fall there was a gathering of longhoods in the mountains of WV. As it turned out a few guys brought their 964's and there were opportunities for back to back C2/C4 drives. The consensus was that the C2 felt more early 911 like with its characteristic handling, C4 felt much more capable with higher limits. The sense was most were over their personal limit way before they got to the cars limit. Both cars were lowered and on performance rubber. Both were competent and fun, and momentum was not as critical with that big lump out back.
For full disclosure, I have one of each flavor. '90 C4 Targa and '94 C2 Coupe. But the 2.0E is still more fun.

boxsey911

C2.....there is no substitute.

There. Somebody's finally said it.

ras62

And it's worth repeating!

BLACK-BETTY

FINE! I'll bite.

Here's the bottom line. A C4 will invariably understeer. This is due to geometry. Both the C2 and C4 were setup with the same figures from the factory - which for obvious reasons is not appropriate. In everyday driving you'd find it impossible to tell the difference. Spirited/ track driving may be another matter.

Point being that with the right suspension, anti roll bars and geometry (let alone - tyre width, ride height) you can dial out understeer completely. After that it's driver error.

So once the C4 no longer understeers what are their differences?

C4, does this effect:

• Acceleration? No. The 0-60 times are the same.
• Braking? Yes, the car weighs more. Can you tell? No.
• Balance? Yes, the C4 is a more balanced car. Yes, the C2 is more traditionally light fronted.
• Forgiving? Yes, the C4 allows for alteration in throttle and steering input within a bend.
• Weight? Yes, the C4 weighs more and no one can argue that weight is the biggest performance killer. Do you notice? You'd have to be a pro.

The bottom line is that Phil Raby (to name a name) ex Total911 editor drove my 964 extensively and could not tell it was a C4. It just felt like it was on rails more due to the suspension mods than the AWD element. He's driven more 911s than any of us could probably do in a lifetime.

Unless you are planning to compete professionally - there is absolutely no point in preferring one to the other. As has previously been stated, I've also seen many C4s and C2s dog fighting on track endlessly - the only difference between them is the driver.

Lead on condition - buy the best you can afford regardless of it being a C4 or C2. Happy hunting

ras62

Gloves off their fella!

Does your car feel slower and less nimble with a mate in the passenger seat? That is the effect of an extra 90-100kg.
Understeer comes from the physics of driving the front wheels, geo only masks its effects, it is not the cause.
The c4 runs shorter gears to try and mask the performance loss of the 4wd system. It manages quite well but once above 60mph there is no hiding. The C2 is a quicker car.
Nice car the C4 but no substitute to a good C2.

All imvho of course

STUARTQ

Originally posted by Black Betty.
Lead on condition - buy the best you can afford regardless of it being a C4 or C2. Happy hunting

Whilst I am a C2 owner and love the way it drives, I don't have the driving hours that many of you have neither on the road or track.

I would suggest you take heed of what everyone has said, mostly all personal opinions, but the only person that can tell you the truth as to what is best for you, is "You". So, go get some test drives done in both C2 and C4, and as I said before and as Frank has just said in his eloquently written piece above, find the best car for your money and don't worry if that turns out to be a C2 or C4, you will get enjoyment out of owning either! Or buy one of each like Bob!

Pc007

Thanks for clearing this doubts for me!


Your white car looks stuning!! I really like the duck tail on these cars, and the white looks just right on the 964.

Thank you, its really stories like this i'm looking for...honest opinions

Hehehe you' ll start a war!!!

Finally!! I was waiting for your opinion, because i started to look at c4s after seeing your car and the one from AMO... Thanks for your opinion and technical explanation...if i buy the c4, that is black, ill ask you for some pointers....


Heheh, i'm on the way to do it in reverse, i already own a c2 targa!

PeterS911

I had both.

I bought a C4 to tide me over whilst my C2 was having a full engine rebuild.

I was very impressed with the C4, especially in damp conditions. A very under-rated car. I had to get rid of one, so the C4 had to go, as I was so financially committed to the C2, and the C2 is the "sought after" one, so values were going up higher, plus the power loss from the drive train was too high.

Buy on condition. They are both great cars. C4 values are going up too.

boxsey911

For me it comes down to what I use it for. Which almost invariably means that the only road miles are to and from the track. Therefore it's how it feels when pushed on track. It's got nothing to do with understeer or acceleration or how fast it can be over a lap. I don't want the security of the 4WD or for it to feel well balanced or for it to be on rails. I want it to be playful, feel edgy and to communicate and chatter to me through the steering wheel. i.e. that uniqueness that a RWD 911 is famous for.

Navaros911

Let me get this right, you're hesitating on purchasing a 964 for a 964?
Though choice right?

Personal opinion - if you are targeting road driving and want full time usable car, the C4 is probably the easier car to live with.

That being said, I have driven both for extended periods. A C2 targa (tiptronic) and my current daily driver C4 coupe. They are very different because of their drive train and cassis... in terms of driving dynamics the difference isn't as big as you may believe.

Like others have said, at the limit you will notice very different behavior, with the C4 being more sure footed and offering a form of stability, where the C2 is more playful and can be called more exciting to drive (until it goes wrong and you wonder if a C4 would've kept you out of trouble).

The biggest difference in my opinion isn't the weight, its how they rotate in cornering. Give the C2 a stab in the corner and it rotates more easily... but you need to be pushing the car a little for this... at normal driving speeds this doesn't really come out. The C4 feels a little heavier in the corners because it is more planted... it does not want to rotate that easily and pushes out a little - again something we associate with weight. This sounds like something less exiting... something you don't want in a fun car. It is not necessarily bad as it builds confidence in places where I'd normally be way more careful in a 2.

This comes from someone who's not afraid to push a car and I've driven almost every Porsche on the track and the road produced since 2000 and a few older ones.

My C4 is faster in day to day driving here than the 997 in the corners. On the 997 pushing it hard through a corner would have the tail step out... the first thing I noticed on the C4 was how planted and fast it could go through corners. This is on real road, not on a track.

The C2 is great, faster straight line performance when speed builds, easier to turn in... but whether this is important to you is something nobody else can decide upon.

Bottom line: under certain circumstances you will notice the difference between the 2 and 4... but in most cases you will not notice this too much.

Just to give a comparison, before my car starts pushing out and rotating through a corner becomes "safe" on the C4, my friends Clio RS lifts it's rear wheel... and that's a very capable car... and by the time we get there, I get a little nervous in a C4, let alone a C2.

A C2 with electronics to keep you on track in the more modern cars... fun and safe on the road.

Now try the C4 and decide afterwards.