ras62

The list of possible upgrades is huge and if torque is the goal then capacities bigger than 3.8 can be used, but that was not the original question. The point is a 4% increase capacity on its own offers very little advantage if any over a 3.6 engine. What certainly does matter is how well the build is done. Valve timing, compression ratio, reverse pistons etc will make a much bigger difference to the final numbers. Not all rebuilds are the same...

dave964diver

My first post covered that question. My PC were shagged and the old style. So that's why I went 3.8 as there was negligible difference in the price and it opened up more options in the future for upgrades and better torque.

KaiB

Mine is a 3.6 with stock pistons and rods, and a very strong 335bhp. It was not inexpensive to do, but has been a wonderful race engine.

Were I building a street car, I'd spend less on the engine, do a short tranny with a Guard LSD, and really spend on suspension and weight.

At the speeds and limits we should drive on the back roads, a short tranny and a bit of skill will make all the difference in the world.

dave964diver

Kaib has got it bang on. Point point a 300bhp NA in a light c2 with a good suspension setup with a close ratio gearbox will keep up with nigh on anything on B roads. For me, that's where the fun is anyway. Think about it 300 bhp stock engine vs 330 bhp tricked one. Loose 100kgs. Same diffs, Job done.

911Jetta

+964

Captain Ahab Jr.

Best bit of advice by far

Less weight with improved suspension will help with acceleration, cornering and braking.

An tuned engine is just an expensive lump of ballast when cornering and braking.

$??k buys for more total car performance through weight saving, suspension and brakes than any engine build would ever achieve.

My C2 Project Lightweight build has 172kg less weight with a 279bhp chipped engine. For comparison it has the same power to weight ratio as a 319bhp standard weight C2.

Cost so far is my time, a loss of some creature comforts and about $50.

Bill Verburg

It's amazing to me how these threads get distorted
Salva veritate,
3.8 mod
trans mod
less weight mod
suspension mod

all are means to the same end and all can be be pursued independently or in concert w/ any or all of the others

Some of the posts seem to imply otherwise

dave964diver

Not sure bill, you must be gutted every time a 3.6 blasts past you on track! Trying to be the good guy here ;-)

STUARTQ

Bill, first you come back with a simple money no object answer, now you're just trying to confuse us.
But seriously, I'm looking at loosing weight were practical, this is not a full time track machine, and I don't want it to be uncomfortable on the road, but i do want to do hill climbs, speed trials and track days as and when possible and I want to be able to give newer cars a run for their money.
So I already have KWV3 suspension to be checked and correctly set up.
The gear box is fine for now, but the 6 speed 993 box sounds like the way to go sometime in the future.
Tuition is obviously a big plus, as it doesn't matter how good the car is, if the driver is rubbish.
A 3.8 is in the future to for me, but is it possible to start with a basic rebuild to 3.8 and then upgrade as required or does that not make sense and it's best to go the whole hog from the start?

dave964diver

Just get a 3.8 Stuart, and if you can afford it Carrillo rods. As this will provide a route to endless modifications without worrying about the bottom end. Head work cams can all be done later if you need it. You will not regret it.

Bill Verburg

*** hoc ergo propter hoc

STUARTQ

Sorry Brideyo. I feel like i sort of hi jacked your thread.

Bill, we have many people with different points of view on RL and it can get confusing at times for those, like me that are new to this game, but we all get there in the end one way or the other.

So I'm going 3.8 starting spec to be decided, with a view to grow as i feel i need more.

From all the good I've heard, i think I'll be talking to Nick at Redtek.

Thanks Dave, i build on that.

Bill Verburg

102mm x109mm Mahles are a good starting point and notheing wrong w/ just doing that along w/ a remapped chip. But there is a synergy when revs are extended and happier cams are used. SS cams +102s+chip are a nice combination that live w/i stock rev limits and stock intake

to raise rev limits needs another step down the slippery slope to do this you need a new set of rods and even happier cams and ITBs and a new engine management setup.

of course you can raise rev limits w/ 3.6 pistons by adding new rods cams, throttle bodies and engine management, again these things aren't mutually exclusive. It's just that a good big engine will beat an equally good small engine any day.

Do talk to the guys that will be doing the work, and listen to their advice, Kai did that when Gamroth built his engine it turned out pretty nice

One last thing to consider, there is a really good reason not to raise rev limits, MTBR, when the revs are raised wear rate also rise and the mean time between rebuild goes down, the more the revs are raised the shorter MTBR

kos11-12

Agreed with Kai,
But it's always going to be about the package,
If you have the money do the whole lot ,

cuse92

OP, I've had a 3.8 w/cup cams conversion done, although I kept it on Motronic and no ITBs. I have a fair bit more torque (nowhere near 300lb ft, more in the 260s), which is great for road driving and suits my driving style such as it is, but to be honest I don't think from a bang for buck viewpoint it was money well spent. I did it because I wanted to do it, and gradually do other bits like Motec, but the reality is that I would have been better off using the money on a track instructor to extract more excitement from the car (I could have hired Walter Rohrl to live in my garage for a year with the extra money I spent ). If you are in UK come to one of the 964 London meets and I'm happy for you to take my car for a drive.