BLACK-BETTY

I think what Konstantin is saying, in truth if we were all reasonable we'd spend a lot less time & money modify our cars and invest extensive driver training.

The best bit you can modify is the driver.
The most effective car mod is removing weight.

I'm confident Walter Rohl would kick our ***** in a stock light weight 964 vs most of our modified 964s with us mortals driving them.

Here's another point,
Lap times been bugger all. Steve/ Boxsey is a wonderful track driver - I'd define him as consistent. He's slower than the GT3RS out there. What's the difference?

Power, whilst the GT3 is almost always faster he possesses more skill. Constantly hitting the right lines, entry, exit speed etc. Forgive for stating the obvious but the fastest drivers aren't always the better drivers...

The point being is that these cars are challenging, that's why we love them. Give them too much power, suspension mods etc and you start to sanitise the experience/ mask your abilities as a driver. Nothing beats the wise track veteran who concentrates on his driver training primarily and mods secondly.

Using Steve as an example again. I went gun hoe about putting air ducts on my car to cool the brakes - can I tell the difference? No or more specifically no way near as much as Steve. He's had his 964 for longer, has done many miles more on track and only after that did he finally decide to duct his brakes. He can now tell you much more accurately how much difference that mod makes.

If you can resist - mod the driver first, then the car.

-nick

You can't argue that improving the driver will always lower lap times, but is that what we're talking about? If all the emphasis was always with driver mods then we would all be honing our lines in some 100hp econo car.

More hp makes driving more fun. My SO just upgraded her base model Mini Cooper to the S model with an extra ~60hp. Completely transformed how much fun it is to drive the car. Would a pro beat the S around the track when driving the base model? Sure. Would that make me want to trade the extra hp for more driver training? Not really.

Getting to the original question- If you have to replace the p&c anyway, is there any reason not to add the extra .2L? Maybe if the $ difference for the p&c is stretching the rebuild budget a bit too tight? Even if you don't see any hp gains, you now have a wider lane available for the future. Nothing to lose as far as I can tell?

kos11-12

yes ,

but sorry I am always tempted to compare with lap times ....rather than street driving
I suppose those who have increase the power of their cars, lap faster now....

dave964diver

Following Chris up to the fair mile meet. His is motec 3.6 993. There is always a bloke in Zafira . Incidentally that fabspeed exhaust of chris has is the best sounding exhaust I've ever heard!

ALEX P

That's disappointing Dave, all sounds a bit quiet to me.

(hit play and it says 'This video is private')

dave964diver

I'll try again. Not sure what I need to do but switched all the privacy settings off! Not much to see as there was traffic and public roads... Chris Exhaust sounds brutal.

Brideyo

Hi Cuse sorry just spotted this. Would love to have a drive. When is the next scheduled meet? Tks David

jotaking

I haven't come across any 3.8's for sale.. just curious to see what sort of premium this would add to a 964?

I know that we buy these toys with our hearts and usually have our eyes and wallets wide open. I am currently saving up for the KW V3s and have pretty much resigned myself to soaking up the cost of these without any premium added to the car (This is the heart over head deal that I made when i purchased).

My to do list comes in pretty steep with: -


Paint - 3K - Done
Hood - 1.5K - Done
KW - 2K
Motec - 5K
Fabspeed - 2.5k
Interior - 4K

18K and counting and after all this I wouldn't expect to get much more than I paid for the car originally?

It would be good to know if the 3.8 gave you some ROI

STUARTQ

Jo, you make an interesting point, but this wether you car is worth more or the same etc would depend on what you paid for it and how long you've owned it for.
If the car is vastly better now than it was when you bought it, why would it not be worth more now?
May be it's not worth more than you have paid out over that period.
RegardIng the KWV3's these add to the way the car handles drives and if set up correctly, they can improve the look. again they must add to the potential resale value especially c
When compAred to a standard car with out these mods.

cobalt

It isn't the way it normally works. However with the screwy market you never know. More times than not modifications detract from value. It is in the eye of the buyer. Kind of like a pool in your yard. You may feel you spent $xxxxxx on the most gorgeous outside paradise however you need to find someone who agrees. Not always the case and it can detract as much as it adds but normally never comes close to covering the expense. Although the market is growing so you may find it has less impact than before.

Even in this market I have seen very nice turbos sell for half market value due to $xxxxxx worth of very nicely done mods. The buyer was happy for sure but the seller took a huge hit.

Don't do it for resale do it for yourself. If your worried about resale than reversible mods work best.

race911

No kidding. Take my faux 993 RS. A ~$20K track rat that, in 2003, had nearly $80K thrown into it. Result? Three years later it ended up in my hands for $40K, including about $5K worth of spares.

SuperUser

I guess I am just not a stock guy, I would buy a car that is sorted out with tasteful mods every time.

BLACK-BETTY

You're right there! Haven't seen one in a long time. However I remember a Castello 964 with a 3.8 a few years ago trading for IIRC £35K - I'm sure someone will correct me.

Bottom line is it seems the 964 crowd are very trigger happy regarding mods. All of us know it costs more to do them yourself - which must be why the RS'd 964s go for a premium over stock.

I had mine valued recently for insurance, 45K by John Glynn. It's obviously suffered price wise due to being a C4 - for all the silly reasons. I paid 14k for the car 5 years ago. Have I lost money? Yes, but the mods along with the market demand have increased its value.

Some cars make no sense to modify - every penny spent is one loss. It makes (man math) sense to modify a 964 it doesn't for a 206. If you're sensible it'll pay for itself - but hey, who's talking about being sensible here...


In UK if you're sensible and massage a 964 with nice RS inspired mods they're worth more. However nothing beats the stock very low mileage cars. Point being, you take two 964s with 100K miles - the stock one will be worth less Vs the RS'd one.

STUARTQ

Frank, at the moment you've spent more money than the car is worth, but in theory youve not lost any money as you haven't sold her or made an insurance claim etc.

What you have is a car that is well known and desired by many Porsche enthusiasts, so if that day came to sell BB, then you will know if there is a loss or not, but until that day comes you're on top in most peoples eyes as a more desirable car might only be an RS and thats going to cost 50 to 100% more than BB has cost you.

jotaking

Putting the finances aside.....The big question is..
Are you living the dream!!

With Frank's BB, Pauls 3.8, Laurent WB Cab and Robs recent refurb there is plenty of aspirational inspiration.

Part way through my mission!!

Its great to see other builds come together and a pleasure to be a small part of this great community!!