mike9186

I've been the happy owner of my 964 for a little over 4 years (I bought it for my 40th Bday, so now you all know how old I am). As is the case with anything familiarity can breed contempt so for the past few months I've gotten the itch to upgrade or change the car for something new. I am not unhappy with my car at all, in fact I love it to death and have maintained it exhaustively (I just replaced the rubber caps on the light switch in the engine bay). My excellent wife sent me to Porsche Driving School in Birmingham Alabama for my 40th birthday and that is where I got nearly all my experience driving the more modern cars. The car I liked the best tearing around the track was the Cayman S. I felt like I was using more of the car than the 997 C2S they also had us drive. It was exhilarating driving the hell out of the Cayman S.

So for the hell of it I went to a local dealer that had a 2011 base Cayman for sales and took a test drive. The sales guy was super cool and let me wring it out on some back country roads for as long as I wanted. I left unimpressed with the Cayman and more connected to the 964 than before.

There is nothing abjectly wrong with the Cayman, it just didn't feel like a race car for the street like my 964 does. The brakes are rubbery and do not have a progressive feel and the clutch is a little light and the cabin is very insulated. I found myself staring at the speedo a lot because I actually had no idea how fast I was going most of the time. Also this car being a base, it really felt underpowered. I really wanted to like the platform but I left disappointed. Lastly the dark gray interior made the car feel very small inside.

Maybe a more optioned up Cayman S would change my mind, I have no idea.

In the meantime my upgrade-itis flareup has been tamed. I know I am preaching to the choir but the 964 is pretty friggin' good!

911Jetta

It's good to try other cars occasionally... to see just how good we have it our 964s.

I too drove a Cayman for the first time a couple months ago.
A copy from a post on my experience:

A friend came over today to see what the air cooled fuss is all about. Porsche even admits it's holding the Cayman back in deference to the 911, so I was interested in seeing what the Cayman is all about.

We drove the same loop with each car, switching seats at the same spot along the way. I felt at home with the simplicity of the Cayman's cabin, but missed having all that space behind the seats to store my gear. The seats felt very familiar and with the tachometer still in the center I was ready to go. Looking out the windshield I was surprised by how much curve there was in the front wings, not stovepipe round, but still very nice. A quick glance in the side mirrors had the Cayman scoring big points. Wow those rear fenders look great. Off we went and I was really looking forward to getting out of town.

That's when I quickly noticed the problem that would be present the whole drive. It's really not a problem with the Cayman, or a problem most people would be aware of or feel is a fault. New cars are just so refined. By no means is it a boring car, as Porsche seems to still be able to build wonderful feeling in every car it builds. The steering was great and the car has a very nice quality feel to it, but it didn't talk to me in the same way the 964 does.

I'm sure we've all read many reviews about how capable the Cayman is, and now I can agree with what I've read over the years. The drive was too short for me to fully relax and let the Cayman get under my skin. What I did notice, and so did my Cayman owning friend, is how we behaved in both cars. The Cayman had us talking most of the time, looking at the countryside, on the verge of turning the radio on. We got out of the Cayman looking at the 964. We were quiet in the 964, focused on the road, big grins on our faces, on the verge of laughing. We got out of the 964 and just kept looking at it.

My take away, if I ever buy a water cooled Porsche, it's going to have to be a GT3.

mike9186

I remember that post now Jetta! You are a wonderful writer. If this were Facebook I would 'like' it!

Rocket Rob

Nice write ups, both you! I would love to do a side-by-side comparison of my 964s with newer machines.

efria

Similar experiences...

I had a Cayman S and really like it. While it was fun to drive, it always felt disconnected; everything was seemingly distant (if that makes sense). Too smooth IMO.

After the Cayman I bought my Lotus Evora. Now that's a car where you feel connected to the road. Feet, butt, and hands are all part of the driving experience.

Still have the Lotus, but recently added my 964 and I'm still trying to figure out how the car feels. It's fun to drive, but it does not inspire confidence like the mid-engine cars do.

Of the 3, I will say the 964 is more visceral and "on your toes", the Evora is confidence inspiring, and the Cayman is just numb.

Andy Roe

In case you haven't seen this already...

mike9186

That is a great video indeed Andy. The overall production is great but the guy kinda freaks me out. Is he someone I should know or is he just a flowing tressed hipster announcer?

cobalt

I have to say the 2014 boxster my wife picked a few months back has been a fun street car. Very similar in feel to the cayman although not as rigid it is quite good for a ragtop (if you can call it that)

I see no reason for an S for basic street driving and can be a lot of fun very exhilarating on the off and on ramps and has a nice exhaust sound with the top down.

Incredibly anemic unless it is in sport mode otherwise the brakes are decent and the car transitions changing road surfaces better than anything other than the cayman IMO.

That being said I put a few hundred miles on it at the glen this weekend and I have to say it was tough. My first impression was major disappointment. I felt as though I was driving fast on the highway instead of at the track. Very little interaction and I might as well had a PDK. The car handles very well hard to screw up anything. I don't think the PSM came on more than a few times although there is no way to actually know since they eliminated the light. I hit some coolant that was dropped a couple of times resulting in older 968's and similar vintage cars into the armco. The boxster on street tires did very well altogether handled everything well was very little challenge to drive full out and my foot was too the floor everywhere with minimal braking. I would be working much harder in my 964 to do the same basic driving and I am sure if I hit the coolant I would have been off myself.

With that being said if you plan on tracking a new cayman or boxster you need an S or GTS period. If you can swing the newer gen cars they are a step above the older cars in many ways. Or plan on dropping some coin into a 3.8 conversion or find a cayman R if you can.

The 964 is a challenge to drive full out but IMO that is what makes it so much fun and the interaction and feel is unlike anything else. These cars are going up in value for a reason. They offer an experience that the average driver has no interest in and the enthusiast cannot get enough of.

mike9186

"The 964...offers an experience that the average driver has no interest in and the enthusiast cannot get enough of."

Incredibly well put!

Knight

Agreed that's a great video. Not sure who he is, but he's def worked for Total 911 and big supporter of the 964. Another old video he's in:

NoSub Dan

Better with no sound. Dude creeps me out but strangely I agree with everything he says. Maybe I can get the transcript.

f3nr15

FWIW, I can relate a little. Have owned the 964 for three years now, when I originally bought it I had been envisioning a guards red coupe lowered on some black Japanese wheels and a loud dual exhaust set-up. I ended up with such an immaculate (non-guards red) example, however, that I haven't been able to bring myself to change anything from stock. And truth be told, I'm a little nervous about driving it around and parking it where it might get dinged etc.

Anyway, I toyed with the idea of selling it for about 5 seconds when I took a job in New Zealand at the start of the year, but instead took the plunge on a cheap but cheerful 928 automatic as a new daily driver and, well a funny thing happened. Not only have I been loving the 928, but it has also doubled my appreciation of the 964. The two cars are polar opposites in terms of their purpose and characteristics, but somehow completely complementary. I really couldn't imagine not having either one in the garage, now, and it's making me wonder about what a 968 would be like.

tacomaworld

I wonder if our brains are tuned in such a way as to default to preferring the old stuff... kind of like preferring just about any 80s track to music from the 90s. I'd be curious about the ages of the people that have posted a strong preference for the 964 over newer cars.

I'm 40.

I sold a '11 Audi S4 to buy my 964 a few years ago. A technological marvel, the S4. A numb, insulated, sensory-neutral device, the S4. Blisteringly fast, yes. Yet, terrifyingly anesthetizing.

Compare that with the experience I had when I got my 1986 Saab SPG back on the road over the weekend. I rejoiced in its simplicity, the feedback - albeit in the form of extreme torque steer - and the great joy in being able to fix any aspect of it by myself. With the aid of Bentleys.

I don't even need to mention the synapse overload that is the 964. Wow.

Not surprisingly, then, was my recent experience driving my brother's high mileage, totally original '98 Boxster. What a hoot! A fully usable bandwidth; direct feedback; basic. I'll acknowledge that it isn't exactly the "old stuff," but it sure was more fun than driving an RS60 - again, trending toward insulating the driver from the road. Maybe they should have called it the R60 instead? (insulation joke inserted purposefully).

zirrah

Comparing air cooled era 911's to modern water cooled cars is tough. 964's and even 993's have much more rawness and feedback than the modern cars. You have to expect that part of it going in and then drive it. Helps. It's more appropriate to compare it to other modern cars because the Cayman does alot of the things you complained about in spades... in spades better than other modern cars that is.

boxsey911

It's Frank, AKA 'Black Betty' here on Rennlist. (he's a very nice fellow and I'm sure he won't take any offense).

FWIW I think the Cayman R is a cracking car and would be second on my list of the modern Porsches (the GT3 996RS being at the top of that list).