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Like many cars I have seen the inventory of nice no-stories 964 Turbos go down to almost nothing. I may put mine up for sale and not sure where the market is for a 53k mile, extremely original car in Slate Grey. I love the car but I also like working on them and I have my eye on a new project which is why this is coming up. I also may go back to a track car and build one up for that purpose but I can't do it with this in the garage. I can always ask whatever I want but just trying to see if anyone knows of any that have sold recently. BaT on these cars is not very applicable as they have sold 2 964T's since the pandemic subsided.
I've been observing the 964T market for a while and believe the outcome of auctions are extremely maintenance, record and originality-dependent. If you take a look at a BaT outlier, i.e. https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...e-911-turbo-9/ - the car was a lower-mileage example in a decent combo (blue leather is polarizing,) with old tires. However, note the lack of records from owners other than the previous (how many were there?) The old tires, indicating that the car was not driven much (hopefully.) To me, this car seemed like it would require quite some work under new ownership, as opposed to https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...-911-turbo-17/ (which also has an LSD.)
That said, I think you may get a better answer to your question by posting a general description of your car's maintenance history, interior color, options, etc. As you see above, these can account for a $15k price delta.
These car are approaching 30 years old and all require some maintenance, as well as minor cosmetic work. If you can't afford the approximately $2000 (my annual running costs are higher but so are my standards) a year it takes to really care for one of these cars, I recommend that you buy something newer.
A car that was driven and maintained will definitely be a better ownership experience than a garage queen. You'd be surprised how any things go bad on a car that sat unused, especially in a non-climate controlled environment.
As with any car, were the basics performed? Was oil, brake fluid, power steering fluid changed on time?
Was the car abused? Running too high of boost is the biggest item. I've seen stories of cars running 1.2 bar of boost on a completely stock engine, for example.
Is there any hidden damage? Anomalies in paint thickness and appearance will point to untold stories.
It's no easy task to find a good Turbo. It will probably require getting on an airplane and looking at one, or possibly hiring someone to do it for you.
Last edited by Metal Guru; 10-17-2020 at 10:26 AM.
The market has changed dramatically since these auctions. The BaT auctions had limited info, no meter readings, leak down or compression numbers. When these cars get above 50k miles these are needed to help sales. There has been a huge increase in pricing on N/A C2's reaching close to the sale prices of these turbos depending on condition. I suspect if properly presented a good turbo will bring strong money.
I agree with Paul a driven turbo is a happy turbo.
I am a little taken back because I just wanted to get an idea of the market and have received quite a bit of interest via PM's. I don't have the Carfax but I'm pretty sure 1 owner since new or 1 owner since the early 1990's and maybe 4k miles. Have to check. Slate Grey with Slate Grey interior and sport seats. Factory model delete. Completely stock car with the exception of the exhaust (not running cats), the stereo and front strut brace. Have just about every receipt and it was nicely maintained throughout it's history and clearly was not an abused car. It is beyond original and when I pulled the motor it was the first time it was ever dropped. Car was driven very little from 2005 until I got it 2 years ago. I think the previous owner was very sick and died and this car sold on BaT. That buyer never registered or drove the car and tried to flip it for a $50k profit but he didn't want to address the mechanical issues so it never sold. I got it from him and really went through it top to bottom with an open checkbook. Full mechanical refurbishment and fixed everything. As per my thread here, I popped off the bumpers and side skirts and painted them and replaced all the rubber between them and the body. The interior is in exceptional condition and the exterior is as well. Has some stone chips as to be expected but I have a paint meter and all is original except the rear fenders which are a little thicker most likely to address stone chips. No accidents or stories. Everything works and the car needs absolutely nothing but the more I think about it the less interested I am in selling. I have too much blood and sweat into this car and feel like I am just abandoning it for no reason. I am looking into a garage lift so I can get another car and keep this and my other car. I just remember how much I regretted selling my 20k mile 1986 930 and don't need that again. This car is far nicer and more enjoyable. Some pics I took in my garage.
Very nice!
I'd think twice about selling as these cars are very rare now. I don't think you would ever be able to find one that nice should you decide to get back into the game.
The great thing about these cars is that with the values where they currently are, an open checkbook is not a problem from an investment standpoint.
I say do everything you can to keep it.
I am a little taken back because I just wanted to get an idea of the market and have received quite a bit of interest via PM's. I don't have the Carfax but I'm pretty sure 1 owner since new or 1 owner since the early 1990's and maybe 4k miles. Have to check. Slate Grey with Slate Grey interior and sport seats. Factory model delete. Completely stock car with the exception of the exhaust (not running cats), the stereo and front strut brace. Have just about every receipt and it was nicely maintained throughout it's history and clearly was not an abused car. It is beyond original and when I pulled the motor it was the first time it was ever dropped. Car was driven very little from 2005 until I got it 2 years ago. I think the previous owner was very sick and died and this car sold on BaT. That buyer never registered or drove the car and tried to flip it for a $50k profit but he didn't want to address the mechanical issues so it never sold. I got it from him and really went through it top to bottom with an open checkbook. Full mechanical refurbishment and fixed everything. As per my thread here, I popped off the bumpers and side skirts and painted them and replaced all the rubber between them and the body. The interior is in exceptional condition and the exterior is as well. Has some stone chips as to be expected but I have a paint meter and all is original except the rear fenders which are a little thicker most likely to address stone chips. No accidents or stories. Everything works and the car needs absolutely nothing but the more I think about it the less interested I am in selling. I have too much blood and sweat into this car and feel like I am just abandoning it for no reason. I am looking into a garage lift so I can get another car and keep this and my other car. I just remember how much I regretted selling my 20k mile 1986 930 and don't need that again. This car is far nicer and more enjoyable. Some pics I took in my garage.
I recall when you bought your car sberger back in Jan/Feb 2019 timeframe, just after selling your '94 968. You were looking for speedlines back then too. We spoke of how I knew your car pretty well. ... from eastern shore of MD, Doctor owned it, and did not drive it much at all. I knew the car when he owned it & was sick. Met his wife, saw the car at his house & the garage it was stored in (on the back water tributaries of the Chesapeake on our Eastern Shore), but did not really climb in / under & around the car - was trying to be respectful of his wife who was standing there. I was at his house because a friend of mine & myself were maintaining his whole-home diesel backup generator. Anyway, his wife gave it to CPR Classic (Vintage Porsche Restoration) in Easton MD for consignment sale. They were asking $99k for quite some time, but could not get it,.. hence the reason it ended up on BaT in August 2017. Rennlister "freshh786" bought it from BaT at $98,175 (all-in fees incl). And you are right that freshh786 was trying to sell it here on RL in Feb 2018 first asking $139K, and then dropped it to $129K (which is still the price you can see it listed for on that RL Classifieds listing),.. and he could not flip it for that, without doing any work to the car. When I went to CPR is Easton and spent quite a bit of time crawling around / in / under that car, I could see why they could not get the $99K. Flipping it in the $120k range (at THAT time in the market) was not cool.
Anyway, I say all of that because I want to tell you that I can APPRECIATE the time & effort you have put into your car. It needed it, and clearly YOU were the right custodian to buy it, and do it. AND, I am writing to also say that, in the 16 yrs of ownership on my car,... (similar to Paul with his car, and Cobalt with his, etc etc),... I have probably invested an inordinate amount of money (probably more than you have) bringing my car up to the Concours & DRIVERS level that it is today. But I did it for the love of the car, not for the investment turnaround reasons (although I can say that it was nice to see the valuations climb starting around 5 or 6 yrs ago). So the reason I am writing all of this here,... is to give you my own personal perspective & evaluation on your car, and given all the work / time / effort / money you have put into it, and you saying it "needs absolutely nothing", I would put your car, in todays market, at about $120K selling price. Asking $129k & negotiating down from there.
Having said that,... If you can put a lift in your garage, and keep the car, I would. Once we get past this election, and hopefully through another smaller round of covid / flu illnesses this winter,.. and our markets start to spin back up next Summer,... I think our cars will start to climb again. We need more years to pass by, so that the newer 911's can increase yet again in price (for the new ones) and value for the prior generations, as drivers continue to look for the visceral driving experiences, and consider adding the 964 Turbo to their stables. It is SUCH a unique driving experience, and even though I am smitten with the 997.2 2010 Aqua Blue / Ceramics GT3 we bought two years ago,... I am still SOOO happy we were able to KEEP our '91 964 Turbo. That experience is STILL so exciting, that we reach for BOTH sets of keys when we head out (several times this spring/summer, my wife & I have taken both of them for the days drive. We switch back & forth during the day, and absolutely love doing so). Anyway,... keeping the car will not only give you satisfaction in driving pleasure,... but I think the longer term valuation of the car will also help you too.
This is of course my own .02, and YMMV for how good the car is for you to keep, verses selling.
Yeah, I'm thinking along those lines as well. Is there any way to know how many 964T were made in each color? Did some searches but didn't find much.
yea,... knowing how many in each color might be nice,... but not sure that would make a big difference in the valuation or market price of the car. Unless it was one of the very unique & limited colors, which are very "collectible",.. the color choices out there for our 964 Turbo's are more of a personal choice type thing,.. and yes it does limit the potential audience to buy any of our cars because folks will just "not buy" until the right car in the right color pops up for sale.
Me personally, back in early 2000's when I was looking for our 964 Turbo, I didn't really care what color I got, I just wanted a premium & superior example. I just happened to end up with Guards Red. Today is different though. People are very specific about their "wants".
We do know that they sold in the US only, in 1991, a total of 580. They sold another 33 in Canada that year, so the total North America is 613.
Then for 1992, they sold 233 in the US, and 15 in Canada.
So for all of the 3.3l 964 Turbos in North America for BOTH 1991 & 1992, there were 861 sold.
So no, I do not know how many 1991 3.3l Turbos they "made" or "sold" in each of the colors (mostly red, white, black, gray, ... with a few Tahoe Blues, midnight blues, greens & yellows thrown in). NOT counting all the "special" 964 Turbo's out there, since they do not really compete with our regular run-of-the-mill cars out on the street.
Maybe Cobalt knows the color breakdown quantities?
Steve - I remembered our chat and thanks for your response. I appreciate your insights as well and I really don't think am going to move forward with selling it unless was for a price I couldn't refuse as I have too much invested both financially and emotionally. $120k will definitely not buy it!
And yes, my 968 was a similar project although I learned a valuable lesson of only getting a PPI done from a well known and respected shop. That car was just too far removed from what I thought I was buying and all I could see was it's flaws and the lies I had been told. My girlfriend and kids loved it because we drove it everywhere but I just couldn't get behind it.
I've been looking at lifts all weekend and am planning that out. It does require some modifications to my garage so need to see what the all-in is there. Oddly enough, I have been eyeing either a 997 GT3 or a Cayman GT4 for track duty but I also have to think long and hard about getting back into that! Lots of decisions and fortunately all first world problems.
Deciding on a selling price is tricky.
If you look at what 3.3's are being advertised for in Europe currently, the range seems to be $140k - 160k for nice cars and occasionally more for a real low mileage example.
What Porsches sell for in Europe has always been 10-20% more than here.
Back when I first bought my car, I had someone from Ford Europe in my cubicle who saw a picture of my car and wanted to buy it because he knew he could easily flip it in Germany for a profit.
I feel that our cars will hit the Euro numbers by next summer but we will see.
Anthony is our valuation expert. hopefully he will comment.
Steve, buying a 997 GT3 was a savvy move. Those cars are really holding their own in the market. Can you post some pictures?
Bmwtmx, would you be willing to give us a synopsis of the work you've done to your car?
Last edited by Metal Guru; 10-20-2020 at 10:28 AM.
Absolutely stunning car. I would hold that car and continue to enjoy it! I have a 3.6 turbo driver that just 101k miles in Tahoe Blue. I get satisfaction opening my door and seeing it in the garage let alone the driving experience.
Great looking car - sounds like you’ve invested in it quite a bit. Different strokes for different folks...so to sell or not to sell is a personal question. What do you want out of your toy car(s)? Something to fix up? Maybe it’s time for a new project. Something more modern with creature comforts? Maybe it’s time for a newer car. But if you love the characteristics and ownership experience of air cooled Porsches - I think it is REALLY hard to beat a 964T. Really hard. Most of visceral experience of the older cars but perfectly acceptable HVAC, better suspension, and I would argue the widebody 964s with aero mirrors and flush bumpers are the best looking generation. Opinion of course. That said I personally think Speedlines take the looks to “11”. When was the last time you hit open roads in the car for an entire day?
This response kinda got me thinking about the very best mods for the 964T. Rather than hijack I’ll start a new thread.
Oh PS I have a friend with a ‘16 Cayman GT4. Have to say it’s a sweet car. Aggressive. Crazy fast in corners. He’s a total GT4 geek - and I mean that in a good way. Up here in CO our turbos can pull on him. And he does admit it’s not nearly as involving as his 964 C2.
it is a 100k car at a minimum.
If it has EVERYTHING done, you can command upwards of 125k.
I have a 1991 white turbo, 58k miles. I have done top end, turbo, oil lines, suspension, steering, A/C, HVAC etc.
Would want $110k for all the work i have performed. But it is not for sale because these are one of the best performing classics you can enjoy for practical use.
I would buy up any that are under priced and need love.
10-15-2020, 02:34 PM
964 Turbo market
