Luis de Prat

Just curious to hear from both sides. TIA.

Geoffrey

Stock for Stock there really isn't a good comparison. Performancewsie the 951 is comparable to a stock N/A 964, even in PCA Stock class racing trim.

Luis de Prat

Wasn't asking necessarily in stock form, as most 951s are modified or at least chip'ed. Thanks just the same.

Megatron-UK

The problem you've got is that most 965 are also modified, even if only wastegate spring and cat.

dholling13

A 951 is a more problematic and less exotic; either car is a blast to drive. But I might be a little biased.

Luis de Prat

Not a problem, just asking!

I've been on Rennlist and owned a 951 long enough to know its potential. Don't know much about 965s and was curious how much of a climb it is to get them to outperform a modified 951. Fair enough?

Megatron-UK

No problem. The issue is that you can really only reliably compare the two when they are unmodified and as they left the factory - once you start to bring modifications into it, then you get into the realms of "well, but if it has this part fitted then A will be faster" and "well, if you tune it like this and fit these dampers, B will corner better"....

cobalt

I owned a 944 S2 and have driven a number of 951's only S's though. Totally different car. Balance, feel and torque are much different. The build quality of a 965 is far superior IMO. A 944 owner might say it is heavy and tail happy. The 951 is far more forgiving to drive and is evenly balanced.

I really enjoyed my 944S2 it had good looks decent road feel and good balance can be driven to the edge easily without worry. For those reasons I sold it. It was not as exciting or challenging to drive and I prefer the 911's myself. the 911 is a challenging car to drive that keeps you on the edge of your seat. It is a blast in more ways than just outright power.

The turbo especially is not a car for everyone, I recommend driving one before buying if your first experiences are in a 951, you might not feel comfortable in it, then again you might never turn back.

I am not sure how modified your 951 is however if your familiar with Raj's turbo 968 his car was about as fast as my car was when it was stock with his car running about 400 hp. Handling wise a well setup 964 will perform as well as some modified 951's I have been on the track with. Last year at the glenn I had a fully prepped 951 with cross suspension, hoosier's and an additional 100hp over stock and he was not able to pass me on street tires and somewhat modified suspension. My turbo blows my 964 away. Not sure if that helps.

Luis de Prat

Thanks Anthony, that's the kind of feedback I was looking for. Kind of hard to get on the 944 Turbo forum.

38D

A 951 is a great car for the buck, but not even in the same league as a 964 turbo. The engine & trans of a turbo are derived from the 935 and can handle upwards of 700hp reliably. Reliable modified 951s are more like high 400s at best.

Luis de Prat

True, but what does it take to get the 965 from the stock 315 to say, 400 hp?

SA Mike

I think 3.3 had 333 with the 3.6 with 355. Actually mine felt faster. Never driven a 951, but from what I hear the tuning has lots of potential. But if I think if you compare stock for stock there is no comparison, the 965 is a lot faster especially the 3.6 T.

cobalt

I would have to agree stock for stock there is no comparison. With basic bolt on mods: Headers, 1 bar spring, cat delete and if you want add a HF k27 turbo you easily achieve flywheel hp numbers or more at the wheels. So a 3.3 l would be at 380-400 BHP and a 94 3.6 around 430-450 BHP depending on condition of motor and CIS system. The biggest limitation to the 964 turbo's is the CIS/K Jetronic injection system. It maxes out at around 400 rwhp. To go beyond this you would need to play around with some components as there are new products like an adjustable WUR etc. Otherwise a complete EFI upgrade would be necessary to take it further and now were talking $$. There are some people (although only a handful) that are achieving numbers as high as 1200 bhp out of these engines with top speeds into the 220 mph range.

Considering these cars in stock form are already quick despite the inherent turbo lag they see 0-125 mph in about 15 seconds with these mods you are probably looking closer to 13 seconds or less.

38D

Around $2k: 1 bar spring, new turbo and delete the cats.

911addict

Colin, c'mon!

A 1 bar with turbo won't give an extra 85hp, will it?

$2K no way:
new turbo eg. HFS $2K no good without headers
headers plus fitting kit $3.K+ (B&B/GHL)
new wastgate?
that's well over $5K...
PLUS for most of us there is the labour...not cheap.

and then you'll need suspension upgrade $3K, clutch? etc. etc.

(I daren't mention here how much I've spend to get mine near 400.)