Time to reconsider how you view your car?
12-30-2013, 08:18 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Time to reconsider how you view your car?
All 964 Turbo series cars are becoming so valuable that they are now investments. Even if they are not in the best condition or lowest mileage. Examples are becoming well ... examples. That is a good thing.
It makes no sense to mod them. If you do mod your car you need to keep every single original part to put it back to original. And there is a big negative value in mods which are not 'bolt on' due to the expense to return them to original (if that's even possible in some cases).
Porsche is starting to stop making or even totally discontinue (NLA) parts for these cars. For example Big Reds are not currently available with no ETA. And 3.8 RS spoilers are NLA. Some special Exclusive parts have not been made for many years and never will again. So don't sell your parts.
If you are missing original parts its now worth investing in locating and purchasing the best examples you can find. The value of your car will be in its originality .... so 'as originally delivered' ... even if the parts are not in the best of condition.
Also know your production date. 25 years will be coming soon.
Here are my predictions for average values at 25 year anniversaries - assuming a stable economy:
3.3 Turbo - 2016/17 - $150K
3.3 Turbo X33 - 2016/17 - $200K
3.3 Turbo SL - 2017/18 - $500K
3.6 Turbo - 2018/19 - $250K
3.6 Turbo X88 - 2019 - $300K
3.6 Turbo S Package - 2019 - $450K
3.6 Turbo S Flatnose - 2019 - $500K
Did I under or overestimate - what do you think?
It makes no sense to mod them. If you do mod your car you need to keep every single original part to put it back to original. And there is a big negative value in mods which are not 'bolt on' due to the expense to return them to original (if that's even possible in some cases).
Porsche is starting to stop making or even totally discontinue (NLA) parts for these cars. For example Big Reds are not currently available with no ETA. And 3.8 RS spoilers are NLA. Some special Exclusive parts have not been made for many years and never will again. So don't sell your parts.
If you are missing original parts its now worth investing in locating and purchasing the best examples you can find. The value of your car will be in its originality .... so 'as originally delivered' ... even if the parts are not in the best of condition.
Also know your production date. 25 years will be coming soon.
Here are my predictions for average values at 25 year anniversaries - assuming a stable economy:
3.3 Turbo - 2016/17 - $150K
3.3 Turbo X33 - 2016/17 - $200K
3.3 Turbo SL - 2017/18 - $500K
3.6 Turbo - 2018/19 - $250K
3.6 Turbo X88 - 2019 - $300K
3.6 Turbo S Package - 2019 - $450K
3.6 Turbo S Flatnose - 2019 - $500K
Did I under or overestimate - what do you think?
12-30-2013, 11:49 PM
#2
Rennlist Member
3.6's for $250k? I don't see how any of the air-cooled cars can get any higher but I didn't predict what's happening now either.
I was at the local Porsche dealer today looking at a 991 Turbo S. Maybe I can make a move in two years....
I was at the local Porsche dealer today looking at a 991 Turbo S. Maybe I can make a move in two years....
12-31-2013, 09:25 AM
#4
Rennlist Member
I guess it explains the fact that poor condition / high mileage cars are now being snapped up.
RE the predictions - are you assuming an average mileage of say 60k ?
RE the predictions - are you assuming an average mileage of say 60k ?
12-31-2013, 01:42 PM
#5
Hi Flauchbau,
I think your prices are even modest for mint cars in the longer term. I consider the Porsches to be the new American muscle cars in collectability and depending on the model we can see values reach sick levels. A Shelby Cobra for 5 million? how many of those were made? Mint common corvettes reaching 200K with high production numbers. The 964 Turbo range especially the S and 3.6's are the real special cars to collect. I can see these reaching at least if not more than the levels you are talking about. What I think we will see is more separation from mint cars to drivers. Mint cars exceeding your values and drivers staying below your figure. The real collectors I feel can still see value in the high prices for the mint cars. The modern collectible Ferraris F40, F50, 288 GTO, Enzo have all increased handsomely in the last few years too. And are all reaching the million dollar mark if they aren't there already. Porsches are second in line and as we have seen there seems to be many Porsche collectors out there than the Ferrari collectors.
The Porsche brand has a following IMO is that even if you're not a true car collector you may want to have one alternative special Porsche. Most of us don't have the space to have many cars but I see a lot of people on the board owning 2-3 Porsches. This type of demand will continue to push prices higher. The rising new cost of cars isn't hurting this either.
I don't follow the American Muscle car market but I think we can see that they have flattened as Baby Boomers are getting older and many will stop driving in the near future. Porsches are the new cars to collect and as more in this age group 35-60 continue to earn more money I think we are only starting to see the beginning of Porsche prices continuing to climb.
So in summary... grab a 3.6 when you can because you may never know if you will ever get another chance again. I know I did.
I think your prices are even modest for mint cars in the longer term. I consider the Porsches to be the new American muscle cars in collectability and depending on the model we can see values reach sick levels. A Shelby Cobra for 5 million? how many of those were made? Mint common corvettes reaching 200K with high production numbers. The 964 Turbo range especially the S and 3.6's are the real special cars to collect. I can see these reaching at least if not more than the levels you are talking about. What I think we will see is more separation from mint cars to drivers. Mint cars exceeding your values and drivers staying below your figure. The real collectors I feel can still see value in the high prices for the mint cars. The modern collectible Ferraris F40, F50, 288 GTO, Enzo have all increased handsomely in the last few years too. And are all reaching the million dollar mark if they aren't there already. Porsches are second in line and as we have seen there seems to be many Porsche collectors out there than the Ferrari collectors.
The Porsche brand has a following IMO is that even if you're not a true car collector you may want to have one alternative special Porsche. Most of us don't have the space to have many cars but I see a lot of people on the board owning 2-3 Porsches. This type of demand will continue to push prices higher. The rising new cost of cars isn't hurting this either.
I don't follow the American Muscle car market but I think we can see that they have flattened as Baby Boomers are getting older and many will stop driving in the near future. Porsches are the new cars to collect and as more in this age group 35-60 continue to earn more money I think we are only starting to see the beginning of Porsche prices continuing to climb.
So in summary... grab a 3.6 when you can because you may never know if you will ever get another chance again. I know I did.
12-31-2013, 02:02 PM
#6
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Yes happy new year everyone lets look for an 'appreciating' 2014.
12-31-2013, 02:08 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Hi Flauchbau,
I think your prices are even modest for mint cars in the longer term. I consider the Porsches to be the new American muscle cars in collectability and depending on the model we can see values reach sick levels. A Shelby Cobra for 5 million? how many of those were made? Mint common corvettes reaching 200K with high production numbers. The 964 Turbo range especially the S and 3.6's are the real special cars to collect. I can see these reaching at least if not more than the levels you are talking about. What I think we will see is more separation from mint cars to drivers. Mint cars exceeding your values and drivers staying below your figure. The real collectors I feel can still see value in the high prices for the mint cars. The modern collectible Ferraris F40, F50, 288 GTO, Enzo have all increased handsomely in the last few years too. And are all reaching the million dollar mark if they aren't there already. Porsches are second in line and as we have seen there seems to be many Porsche collectors out there than the Ferrari collectors.
The Porsche brand has a following IMO is that even if you're not a true car collector you may want to have one alternative special Porsche. Most of us don't have the space to have many cars but I see a lot of people on the board owning 2-3 Porsches. This type of demand will continue to push prices higher. The rising new cost of cars isn't hurting this either.
I don't follow the American Muscle car market but I think we can see that they have flattened as Baby Boomers are getting older and many will stop driving in the near future. Porsches are the new cars to collect and as more in this age group 35-60 continue to earn more money I think we are only starting to see the beginning of Porsche prices continuing to climb.
So in summary... grab a 3.6 when you can because you may never know if you will ever get another chance again. I know I did.
I think your prices are even modest for mint cars in the longer term. I consider the Porsches to be the new American muscle cars in collectability and depending on the model we can see values reach sick levels. A Shelby Cobra for 5 million? how many of those were made? Mint common corvettes reaching 200K with high production numbers. The 964 Turbo range especially the S and 3.6's are the real special cars to collect. I can see these reaching at least if not more than the levels you are talking about. What I think we will see is more separation from mint cars to drivers. Mint cars exceeding your values and drivers staying below your figure. The real collectors I feel can still see value in the high prices for the mint cars. The modern collectible Ferraris F40, F50, 288 GTO, Enzo have all increased handsomely in the last few years too. And are all reaching the million dollar mark if they aren't there already. Porsches are second in line and as we have seen there seems to be many Porsche collectors out there than the Ferrari collectors.
The Porsche brand has a following IMO is that even if you're not a true car collector you may want to have one alternative special Porsche. Most of us don't have the space to have many cars but I see a lot of people on the board owning 2-3 Porsches. This type of demand will continue to push prices higher. The rising new cost of cars isn't hurting this either.
I don't follow the American Muscle car market but I think we can see that they have flattened as Baby Boomers are getting older and many will stop driving in the near future. Porsches are the new cars to collect and as more in this age group 35-60 continue to earn more money I think we are only starting to see the beginning of Porsche prices continuing to climb.
So in summary... grab a 3.6 when you can because you may never know if you will ever get another chance again. I know I did.
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12-31-2013, 11:02 PM
#9
I have had my Turbo S Leichtbau for quite a few years, since well before the price run-up, but my personal appreciation for the car has grown continuously over the years, since day one. Driving dynamics (brief but spirited drive just yesterday am 
!), build quality, style, rarity, heritage, and yes, even maintenance experience. The car has had exactly zero issues over my ownership experience aside from routine fluid and filter changes - better record than even my 993s and 997s. And it's a 20 year old car!
If - knock on wood - there ever arose a reason for me to replace my Turbo SL, and I found a car in at least equal condition, and the marketplace demanded such pricing, then 500k would not be out of the question, even now.
My POV is heavily influenced by my positive experience with my car, but my 2 cents.
!), build quality, style, rarity, heritage, and yes, even maintenance experience. The car has had exactly zero issues over my ownership experience aside from routine fluid and filter changes - better record than even my 993s and 997s. And it's a 20 year old car!If - knock on wood - there ever arose a reason for me to replace my Turbo SL, and I found a car in at least equal condition, and the marketplace demanded such pricing, then 500k would not be out of the question, even now.
My POV is heavily influenced by my positive experience with my car, but my 2 cents.
01-01-2014, 03:40 PM
#11
Instructor
I can't agree more....Im 35 yo and can remember when the Bad Boys movie came out in high school. Everyone wanted one...Having paid a handsome amount for a clean original mid 30k miles car, i can attest to how strong the market is...For a so so 3.6 they are 120-140, a perfect no stories low miles car, 150 up...My opinion is that they will be 175k- 185k for a clean car by spring time, if any show up on the market..
01-01-2014, 05:40 PM
#12
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Good thread - I still drive my car to work on nice sunny days but I am now considering agreed value insurance for it because you never you when some texting idiot plows into you. I am also contemplating swapping my Fabspeed Headers for the original ones, so the car would be all original again.
01-03-2014, 04:14 AM
#15
Good post, Flachbau.
The SL and S package cars are definitely special, and will be the standouts of the breed. They will be coveted by serious collectors. IMO, these cars will exceed your value predictions.
Respective values for 3.3's and regular 3.6's will depend largely on mileage and condition with large value delta in favor of cars with less than 15k miles and then 30k miles, and on up.
The SL and S package cars are definitely special, and will be the standouts of the breed. They will be coveted by serious collectors. IMO, these cars will exceed your value predictions.
Respective values for 3.3's and regular 3.6's will depend largely on mileage and condition with large value delta in favor of cars with less than 15k miles and then 30k miles, and on up.