968 Supercharger Kit Development
03-09-2009, 10:30 PM
#1
Developer
Thread Starter
968 Supercharger Kit Development
My name is Carl Fausett and we are a Rennlist sponsor.
Our company, 928 Motorsports LLC, is one of the Big 3 in the 928 world, where we have developed supercharger kits for every year and model of Porsche 928, among others.
We have acquired a 1994 Porsche 968 with the intention of developing a supercharger kit for the 968 - pictures below.
I would like to invite the members of the 968 Forum to provide some input during the design phase if you wish.
I can tell you that our design objectives already include the following:
a) it will be an externally mounted bolt-on kit
b) it will not require disassembly of the engine to install
c) the Air Conditioner will remain in place and functioning
d) the polution control equipment will remain in place and functioning
The first kit will be Stage 1 (non-intercooled) but designed with an eye for the Stage 2 kit (intercooled) to follow as an upgrade.
If you have any ideas or suggestions, feel free to post them here. I listen well. That's not to say every suggestion will make the kit (that isn't possible) but good suggestions just may at that.
Also tell me what does or doesn't work (if you know) as I expect a few 968's have been fitted with centrifugal superchargers by private parties already.
Here are some links to cars we have already developed supercharger kits for:
The 32v Porsche 928
http://www.928motorsports.com/parts/32v_stage2.php
(the pictures on this kit are very beautiful, click on them to enlarge them)
The 16v Porsche 928
http://www.928motorsports.com/parts/stage2.php
The Ferrari 308/328
http://www.928motorsports.com/parts/...ger308-328.php
The Ferrari Mondial
http://www.928motorsports.com/parts/...percharger.php
I'm enjoying driving the 968 at the moment, nice car! It is scheduled into our shop on March 20th to begin the development of the kit.
Our company, 928 Motorsports LLC, is one of the Big 3 in the 928 world, where we have developed supercharger kits for every year and model of Porsche 928, among others.
We have acquired a 1994 Porsche 968 with the intention of developing a supercharger kit for the 968 - pictures below.
I would like to invite the members of the 968 Forum to provide some input during the design phase if you wish.
I can tell you that our design objectives already include the following:
a) it will be an externally mounted bolt-on kit
b) it will not require disassembly of the engine to install
c) the Air Conditioner will remain in place and functioning
d) the polution control equipment will remain in place and functioning
The first kit will be Stage 1 (non-intercooled) but designed with an eye for the Stage 2 kit (intercooled) to follow as an upgrade.
If you have any ideas or suggestions, feel free to post them here. I listen well. That's not to say every suggestion will make the kit (that isn't possible) but good suggestions just may at that.
Also tell me what does or doesn't work (if you know) as I expect a few 968's have been fitted with centrifugal superchargers by private parties already.
Here are some links to cars we have already developed supercharger kits for:
The 32v Porsche 928
http://www.928motorsports.com/parts/32v_stage2.php
(the pictures on this kit are very beautiful, click on them to enlarge them)
The 16v Porsche 928
http://www.928motorsports.com/parts/stage2.php
The Ferrari 308/328
http://www.928motorsports.com/parts/...ger308-328.php
The Ferrari Mondial
http://www.928motorsports.com/parts/...percharger.php
I'm enjoying driving the 968 at the moment, nice car! It is scheduled into our shop on March 20th to begin the development of the kit.
03-09-2009, 11:51 PM
#2
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Hey....I can vouch for Carl's parts. As a 928 owner also I've purchased from him. He make good stuff. He also runs the Pikes Peak run in a really, really cool and high performance 928.
Carl, if you can make a relatively easy to install supercharger for the 968, I'm interested. I think that (at least secretly) most 968 owners would like a turbo'ed 968...but the cost for outfitting a turbo is not trivial and far from cheap. However, if a supercharger could be had for from $4K=$6K I'm guessing you'd sell some. There aren't a lot of 968s but if a similar kit could be made to fit the 944 S2, you may sell a crapload of them.
The supercharger on a 928 that I know of ('88S4) has a verified 206mph on one of the Nevada Open Road Races. Cheap horsepower.
I love my 968...and always wish that it had more horses. It would be the perfect car if it had more torque and ponies.
That's just my take. Others?
Carl, if you can make a relatively easy to install supercharger for the 968, I'm interested. I think that (at least secretly) most 968 owners would like a turbo'ed 968...but the cost for outfitting a turbo is not trivial and far from cheap. However, if a supercharger could be had for from $4K=$6K I'm guessing you'd sell some. There aren't a lot of 968s but if a similar kit could be made to fit the 944 S2, you may sell a crapload of them.
The supercharger on a 928 that I know of ('88S4) has a verified 206mph on one of the Nevada Open Road Races. Cheap horsepower.
I love my 968...and always wish that it had more horses. It would be the perfect car if it had more torque and ponies.
That's just my take. Others?
Last edited by H2; 03-11-2009 at 12:27 AM.
03-10-2009, 01:52 AM
#3
Instructor
Carl...I wish you the best of luck, and any support I can give. I helped to develop the S/C kit on my VW MKIV Vr6 with Nik Saran @ VF Engineering.
The thing I would like to see, and I think would be important for those of us who want to keep the car as stock as possible; would be to use the factory ECU with custom tunning. This should be fairly easy (I think) as with a low boost application (~6 psi non-IC'd) you should be able to change the FPR and still leave the injectors stock (I'd hazard a guess they are not anywhere near 80% duty cycle stock) and fuel pump. Also, if we could KEEP the A/C that would be HUGE, as living in Vegas, this is important ( to me at least). :P
Let me know if I can help. I wish I knew how to get "data" from the ECU to data-log: knock, AFR's, timing, etc.....all of that is really critical with tuning, but having worked on s/c'd 928's you probably have a few tricks.
Also, not sure what S/C's you are/planning on using but Vortech has recently "upgraded" all of their units, as MANY V9's and even V2's have been failing way below what they are rated at.
If/when you get this going, let me know as I would be interested in a kit.
The thing I would like to see, and I think would be important for those of us who want to keep the car as stock as possible; would be to use the factory ECU with custom tunning. This should be fairly easy (I think) as with a low boost application (~6 psi non-IC'd) you should be able to change the FPR and still leave the injectors stock (I'd hazard a guess they are not anywhere near 80% duty cycle stock) and fuel pump. Also, if we could KEEP the A/C that would be HUGE, as living in Vegas, this is important ( to me at least). :P
Let me know if I can help. I wish I knew how to get "data" from the ECU to data-log: knock, AFR's, timing, etc.....all of that is really critical with tuning, but having worked on s/c'd 928's you probably have a few tricks.
Also, not sure what S/C's you are/planning on using but Vortech has recently "upgraded" all of their units, as MANY V9's and even V2's have been failing way below what they are rated at.
If/when you get this going, let me know as I would be interested in a kit.
03-10-2009, 10:23 AM
#5
Nordschleife Master
I might be interested in a system that would get me 300 rwhp for track use (racing). System would have to be reliable and not prone to overheating here in the SE where we race at 90oF and higher all summer long. Not sure if that is possible or not with these cars but would love to see it.
03-10-2009, 10:32 AM
#6
Developer
Thread Starter
Thanks guys. I'll keep you posted with the progress.
Again, the car enters the shop on about the 20th.
Isinlv: yes, your specs are about right and represent our target. I willbe using a Raptor centrifugal supercharger - we like them because of their very high adiabatic efficiency (lessens the need for an intercooler) and small package size. Our goal will be to use the stock injectors and stock ECU in the Stage 1 kit. That lowers the price and keeps installation simple. We'll see what the stock ECU and injectors can fuel.
Again, the car enters the shop on about the 20th.
Isinlv: yes, your specs are about right and represent our target. I willbe using a Raptor centrifugal supercharger - we like them because of their very high adiabatic efficiency (lessens the need for an intercooler) and small package size. Our goal will be to use the stock injectors and stock ECU in the Stage 1 kit. That lowers the price and keeps installation simple. We'll see what the stock ECU and injectors can fuel.
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03-10-2009, 12:38 PM
#8
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Sounds Excellent Carl and might just be tempted and you have some great developments on your website - Enjoy your new 968, it looks a good one 
Not seen many in that color in the US but that was very common over in the UK especially in Sport spec.
Have you taken a look at the Nine Meister supercharger in the UK? Not sure if they still offer it or the specs etc.
Not seen many in that color in the US but that was very common over in the UK especially in Sport spec.Have you taken a look at the Nine Meister supercharger in the UK? Not sure if they still offer it or the specs etc.
03-10-2009, 12:49 PM
#9
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Carl...I wish you the best of luck, and any support I can give. I helped to develop the S/C kit on my VW MKIV Vr6 with Nik Saran @ VF Engineering.
The thing I would like to see, and I think would be important for those of us who want to keep the car as stock as possible; would be to use the factory ECU with custom tunning. This should be fairly easy (I think) as with a low boost application (~6 psi non-IC'd) you should be able to change the FPR and still leave the injectors stock (I'd hazard a guess they are not anywhere near 80% duty cycle stock) and fuel pump. Also, if we could KEEP the A/C that would be HUGE, as living in Vegas, this is important ( to me at least). :P
.
The thing I would like to see, and I think would be important for those of us who want to keep the car as stock as possible; would be to use the factory ECU with custom tunning. This should be fairly easy (I think) as with a low boost application (~6 psi non-IC'd) you should be able to change the FPR and still leave the injectors stock (I'd hazard a guess they are not anywhere near 80% duty cycle stock) and fuel pump. Also, if we could KEEP the A/C that would be HUGE, as living in Vegas, this is important ( to me at least). :P
.
Isinlv, I also dabbled with VF engineering and Nik, great kit and delivered quite a punch for the VR6. Nice clean layout and rather straight forward. Fit nice - a little tight etc..but doable. For those who have not seen one-
Carl, we were actually kicking around modifying or peicing the VF kit to fit the 968 but never got around to it. Some outsider observations. The GTI value as it relates to the SC kit takes a 5-7K car and adds $3K to it for quite the bang for buck. The added utilitarion use of most VR6s makes it very attractive.
I looked at your 928 systems and they are very, very immpressive. The only thing I was concerned with about personally trying to come up with a 968 kit was the deminishing value of the 968 and the low production numbers. Most of us are in our cars from anything in between 7-17K. I would say $12K in this market will land you a nice car. To SC it for $7-8K more might put you very upside down and mean if you sell it it has to be a 968 guy, where as the VW you can keep 2/3s of the SC cost passed on to the buyer. You are also then competing against $20K cars which there are many better performing in this $ category. (Porsche affair aside).
At least for me if the finished kit can be between $3.5-5K many would consider it. Turboing our cars has been done many times before and may be cheaper (guys?) but I doubt easier. I am sure you have researched all this- just my 2cs.
Good luck- Looks like a very nice car to start with!!! I wait with baited breath for the finished product
I am sure it will be buetiful judging from the quality of the 928 kits.Cheers, Mike
03-10-2009, 01:15 PM
#11
Instructor
PM sent Carl.
FYI - a low boost app would be purfect for the 968, nearly no additional thermal load, simple install, and few if any mods....not to mention the car could use another 100whp... :P add to this the great linear power curve of the centerfugal S/C, and you could not loose.
As others have said, the cost would be the greatest factor, and I think ~ $5k would be max cost for a base kit, with additional power output being additional $$.
my $0.02
Larry
FYI - a low boost app would be purfect for the 968, nearly no additional thermal load, simple install, and few if any mods....not to mention the car could use another 100whp... :P add to this the great linear power curve of the centerfugal S/C, and you could not loose.
As others have said, the cost would be the greatest factor, and I think ~ $5k would be max cost for a base kit, with additional power output being additional $$.
my $0.02
Larry
03-10-2009, 04:00 PM
#12
Just wondering, Would this kit poss be available for a NON A/C car.?? and in RHD form....
We all await the outcome........
A low boost kit could work well, as i beleive the 968 engine is a pretty high compresion unit in standard form + pushing in much more air/fuel under pressure can lead to extra heat problems...
If you did intercool it , would you use the 944turbo unit.???
Its all as ever down to the bottom line.... $$$$ or ££££...?????
We all await the outcome........
A low boost kit could work well, as i beleive the 968 engine is a pretty high compresion unit in standard form + pushing in much more air/fuel under pressure can lead to extra heat problems...
If you did intercool it , would you use the 944turbo unit.???
Its all as ever down to the bottom line.... $$$$ or ££££...?????
03-10-2009, 05:24 PM
#15
Burning Brakes
The 944 intercooler does fit with some small mods. The biggest issue is removing a little sheet metal for big air flow and changing the hood latch set up.
Cheers, Joel
Cheers, Joel