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Not saying that I don't see your view of this situation either. Much of what you said obviously resonates with most anyone who has seen the ads.
Agreed.
He has added Chapters 2-4 to his auction and taken an even deeper left turn to oblivion. I always chuckle when people throw libel accusations. As an attorney I don't think I would get far with a judge or jury as I refer to the slander from " Porsche Maniac342" but what do I know,I slept through law school.
What I have learned (and find great about this conversation!), is carfax and other services are not 100% Accurate, and by the owners own admission, of having the insurance company buy and then sell him back the car, the insurance company did not brand (Or was not required to) the car like it legally should have been. At least by law since 2008, Insurance companies and salvage yards must report this information to the government database. This was enacted because after hurricane Katrina, people took cars to states that did not brand titles with FLOOD, to dry them out and sell them as good cars. So did the accident happen before 2008? Perhaps that is why there is a conflict in reporting of the type of loss.
I paid for the official government report, obviously carfax pieces its information from other sources. Carfax obviously has other sources it trawls.
The National Motor Vehicle Title Information System (NMVTIS) is designed to protect consumers from fraud and unsafe vehicles and to keep stolen vehicles from being resold. NMVTIS is also a tool that assists states and law enforcement in deterring and preventing title fraud and other crimes.
Consumers can use the Government's NMVTIS to access important vehicle
history information.
Why is brand information important to consumers?
Brands are descriptive labels (applied by state motor vehicle titling
agencies) regarding the status of a motor vehicle, such as "junk,"
"salvage," and "flood." NMVTIS keeps a history of brands that have been applied to the vehicle by any state. Brand information helps protect consumers from purchasing a damaged vehicle that is presented for sale without disclosure of the vehicle’s real condition. Without knowing the brand history, a consumer may pay more than a vehicle’s true value or purchase a vehicle that has not been adequately repaired and is not safe to drive.
Salvage Damage or Not Specified - Any vehicle which has been wrecked, destroyed or damaged, to the extent that the total estimated or actual cost of parts and labor to rebuild or reconstruct the vehicle to its pre-accident condition and for legal operation on roads or highways exceeds a jurisdiction-defined percentage of the retail value of the vehicle. The retail value of the vehicle is determined by a current edition of a nationally recognized compilation (to include automated data bases) of retail values.
Salvage--Damage or Not Specified also includes any vehicle to which an insurance company acquires ownership pursuant to a damage settlement, or any vehicle that the vehicle's owner may wish to designate as a salvage vehicle by obtaining a salvage title, without regard to extent of the vehicle's damage and repairs, or any vehicle for which the jurisdiction cannot distinguish the reason the vehicle was designated salvage.
Totaled A vehicle that is declared a total loss by a jurisdiction or an insurer that is obligated to cover the loss or that the insurer takes possession of or title to.
So basically your VIN check depends on the same matrix as any of them, dependability and consistency.
I suppose that is what we're left with, one says its a totaled car and the other saying it is clear.
Lets remember though that I do not believe anyone believed or cared about the argument of nomenclature between salvaged/totaled. The seller clearly explained what he did and why he did it. It just comes down to a buyer willing to accept the risk that the car could have a serious mark against it and for me that the seller is now running from his own words and clouding the risk under some sort of mistaken verbiage.
To the seller: You ripped off your insurance company, made a profit and do not want to suffer any financial distress for a choice YOU made in doing so. Shame on you.
Also before you add yet another long winded game of 13 questions just post this:
x/2 + 7 = 0
Some reports have it as branded (CarFax, NICB), others don't (Auto Check, NMVTIS).
Makes sense to me about CarFax versus Auto Check, as CarFax is the commercial premier broker of vehicle title information whereas Auto Check is a distant runner-up, so, as the saying goes, "you get what you pay for." Same goes for the NICB versus NMVTIS reports, as NICB is reported by the consortium of insurance companies to protect each other, and NMVTIS is a government operation.
To me, the "source of truth" here is the seller's accounting which details the damage, the maneuvering with the insurance company to total the car, and the consequent reporting to NICB (and CarFax), which is all backed up by those two reports.
As if this car weren't rare enough, we have here maybe the one and only branded/unbranded 968 in captivity! Must be lucky #7. Hell, the seller should add a premium for the novelty value. (Yes, I'm joking.)
Bottom line (at least until we hit a new low) is that this car has been reported to the insurance companies as a total. When the new buyer goes to get a policy on it, all will certainly be revealed. Okay, probably. Maybe? Flip a coin???
Seller, it's on you to make sure your buyer knows ALL of this before taking a dime. Let the market decide fairly what it's worth, full disclosure.
I'm going to abstain from any further commentary regarding the seller, and also clarify that my previous labeling of him as "a jerk" (a rather gentle admonition in today's internet standards) was meant exclusively as criticism towards him for his second listing, wherein he made no mention of any trouble with the roof or the title, etc., after doing so in his first listing. The second listing came across as an attempt to mislead.
This whole thing has gotten out of hand, and one of the most obvious signs of that is the one you DON'T see - namely, any more commentary from Jeff. Class act that he is, looks like he's stepped away from it all. We could probably all stand to follow his lead and let the seller, sale, and vehicle take their natural course now that everything has been exposed. Awkwardly exposed.
Seller, you've got a situation on your hands for sure, and frankly, brought on mostly by your own doing vis a vis the insurance claims and such. The TITLE may be clear, but only because of what seems like an error on the insurance company's part. However, the RECORD of the vehicle is now well documented and known to its current (and future) insurance carrier. There's the rub - finding buyer who discounts this oddity. Someone who wants that perfect car will almost certainly have an issue with that. I know I would, but I'm perhaps a little more eccentric when it comes to these cars.
I suspect I may be the only person who has ever owned TWO of the 10 SY 968 Cabs (#10 from 1999-2004 or so, and #3 from 2015-present); they are very special to me. I hope that #7 finds a good home for the right money.
If the car was local I would go and take a good look.
If it is in as good condition as he says it is (which is hard to believe for a 118,000 mile vehicle), I might offer $20-$25K as I am definitely in the market.
Where he is at with his "buy it now" price of nearly $39K and his strange (and kind of arrogant) comment about not really wanting to sell for mere money he does not come across as a sincere seller (IMO) and more importantly he is certainly driving away serious buyers. I wonder if he realizes that......
There are much better ways to market that car. Realistic pricing, transparency about the car's history, and especially more and better photos would be a great start.
Although it may be a really nice car in a rare color it also has 118,000 miles and a story which means it is not, and probably never will be, a top tier collectable.
High mileage cars will typically be drivers cars and not collector cars. That said, given the way things are going in the Porsche world, it is becoming harder to be able to enjoy our cars. Fortunately that is not the case with 968's where nice ones can still be had at a good price.
As far as 118k making the condition questionable, I challenge any car with 1/2 the mileage of my 968 cab to look or be maintained as well. It currently has 136k miles.
My point is, we should not discount a car just based on mileage. I have spent over $25k in my car since my purchase and this is when labor was free . Condition depends on the owner.
08-02-2015, 12:50 AM
. Condition depends on the owner.