Four Ring Circus

Anyone have first hand knowledge to compare FVD headers vs FabSpeed? I already have a FabSpeed TrackTech exhaust on my car, but am looking at headers+tune. On the one hand, there’s something good about going with FS headers to match the exhaust, but I still need a tune (Cobb?). With FVD headers, I won’t have a fully engineered header to exhaust set up, but at least have headers and tune engineered together. Am I over-analyzing this? Thx.

michaelscain

I went with FVD tune and FVD sports headers on my 981BS, could not be happier, but in hindsight wish i did a before and after dyno. Car is much quicker then before. But the more i drive it, the more i get use to the power. Its now harder to remember what the car was like before the mods.

storii

I think you are giving too much credit to the mufflers. In the great scheme of breathing mods, the role mufflers play is not that big. In other words, getting the headers and mufflers from the same manufacturer wouldn't mean much. I paired the FVD headers with the OEM PSE and never thought anything of it.

On the other hand, the tune and headers can make a great deal of difference depending on what you choose. I chose FVD because 1) they are a Porsche-only tuner who has been tuning Porsches for over 30 years, 2) they tune Porsche's factory racers such as the RSR and the Cup R cars, 3) they place as much emphasis on the reliability and drivability as the power gain, 4) their tune is custom made for your car unlike the off-the-shelf offerings like Cobb's OTF tune, 5) they offer a 30-day, no-questions-asked money back guarantee on their tune, 6) their headers are manufactured by M&M Exhaust of Germany who makes exhaust systems for Porsche Motorsports in Weissach, and 7) with their Customer Loyalty Discount Program, their headers are not much more expensive than Fabspeed. You can read about the technologies M&M put into their headers here: https://www.fvd.net/adbimage/118634/...11200shd_1.pdf

Four Ring Circus

Thanks for the detailed response. My gut was telling me that headers and tune need fo done as one, so your response supports that. Thank you.

garfunkle

Headers don't "need" a tune but 1 + 1 = 3 in this case.

I have experience with Fabspeed headers - FVD are what are one each of my personal Porsches. For track and race cars there are a couple others I might steer you to but for the street, in a catted header, FVD is the best. Also, FVD headers are made by M&M. The same M&M that makes exhausts for factory Porsche race cars and RSR cars. The quality is that much better than others out there. TUV certification, etc. Vs Fabspeed, fitment will be much better with FVD. Also, do yourself a favor and get the install kit.... comes with new bolts and gaskets.

storii

If I gave you a wrong impression, I would like to correct it. An ECU tune doesn't "need" headers and the headers don't "need" a tune. As a matter of fact, I first installed just the FVD tune without a solid plan to add headers later. I could have been just happy with the tune alone. However, as garfunkle said, a tune and headers together is like 1 + 1 = 3.

Also, the tune and headers don't have to come from the same provider. You can have the FVD tune with the Fabspeed headers or the Cobb tune with the FVD headers. I already stated my reasons why I chose FVD, but the reasons I did not go with Cobb were 1) Cobb is not a Porsche only tuner like FVD is so I wasn't as comfortable, 2) their OTF/Stage 1 tune is known to be "soft" (= more generic) and will not give as much power gain as the FVD tune, 2) on the other hand, Cobb's "Pro Tune" where a local Cobb tuner will custom tune your car using dyno data can be as good or even better than the FVD tune but will be a whole lot more money.

As for the headers, I think the manufacturers like FVD/M&M, Cargraphic and Dundon are simply in a different league from others. Because this was to be a one-time investment (hopefully), I wanted to pick the very best.

absoluteczech

I always find it fascinating people will spend thousands on modifications with claims of "x" hp but then wont invest in a few hundred dollars woprth of dyno tests to compare and actually quantify those differences. If I was spending almost $3k on some headers and tuned I would definitely want to know how much power I made

Noah Fect

It's unthinkable. I'll never understand making changes without making measurements... but that's the inner engineering geek in me coming out, I guess.

st981

It's not that simple though, our cars can't be dyno'd on the typical single roller dynos. it's an additional investment of time and money so many people are happy with the butt dyno results if they *feel* similar to the quoted figures. But yeah, it's always convenient to see other people put in their time and money to please the random Googlers

ekam

I certainly did.
https://rennlist.com/forums/987-981-...o-987-2-s.html

A432

The other big issue is if they do make measurements, incorrect methodology is used, primarily missing a baseline and then assuming corrections yielding a questionable "gain". (it's really the area delta that matters)

Secondarily, setting up the temperatures/conditions/fuels so that the DME reacts the same and losses are the same from run to run.

People sometimes have to ask themselves, am I selectively including or omitting information to suit my cognitive biases, (or business biases)..... not picking on any one individual here.

Since this is a thread on an FVD flash, I should state this has nothing to do with FVD but is an observation after years of working with cars/people as a mechanical engineer and doing correct testing on the 9A1.

Noah Fect

Absolutely. Ideally the car wouldn't even be unstrapped from the dyno while the mod is installed. Not always feasible, but in the best of all possible worlds that's how comparisons would be made.

absoluteczech

Sure, but as you mentioned its the delta youre after anyways. so even an incorrect testing methodology or wrong measurements would still show that "x" difference. As a consumer 10hp means nothing to me for $1500. If you extrapolate that 10hp it probably less than a tenth of a second in terms of acceleration

A432

No, not necessarily. Changing fuel, OAT, engine water/oil temperature, test gear, shop dyno, tire pressure (although I test on a hub dyno) etc. etc. in between runs will yield a potentially different delta.

For example, some of the testing I did was on a part (which will remain nameless because people get upset) that was supposed to make a big change and it was ~4 whp.......

Had the methodology been flawed the 4 whp could have been in the lack of controlling the variables....but since I controlled the variables, the ~4 whp was valid.