View Poll Results: How do you downshift?
Heel/toe most of the time
54
40.60%
Heel/toe sometimes
29
21.80%
Auto/rev match most of the time
41
30.83%
I lug the engine or put car in neutral
4
3.01%
I drive a higher performing PDK
5
3.76%
CVT all or nothing
0
0%
Voters: 133. You may not vote on this poll
For MT Drivers
#17
I used to race cars so heel-n-toe was like second nature. Then drove auto-tragics for 6+yrs until now. I do heel-n-toe a fair amount at higher RPM and when setting up for a turn but at lower RPM it's awkward to do so I don't. I cringe when people (ahem gf) downshift and shock load the driveline but heel-n-toe is not something everyone learned to do nor everyone even knows what it is.
#18
Rennlist Member
I honestly find heel toeing hard in the Boxster. I have a ‘69 912 and it’s a piece of cake in that car how the pedals are set up. I feel you have to contort your ankle awkwardly to make it work in the new cars. Having said that I usually rev match when I down shift.
#19
Rennlist Member
I'm a manual-only guy but the auto-blip is great on the track, IMO. I don't think it's THAT much of a cheat considering PDK does that and everything else, we already have the performance disadvantage of being manual.
#20
Rennlist Member
My daily drivers have been manuals for so long, I'm that guy who occasionally rolls a foot over onto the gas when I first jump into one of the autobox cars in the family.
Habits... go figure...
Habits... go figure...
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g00dparsh (07-21-2020)
#21
Advanced
I'm a little surprised at some of the comments about people not being able to heel/toe. I wear a size 8 shoe -- kind of on the small side -- and I've heel-and-toed every manual transmission car I've driven for the last 30+ years, with the ball of my foot on the brake and the heel or side on the gas. Some cars are more awkward than others -- Ford Focus ST and SN95 Mustang come to mind -- but I've never found a car I absolutely couldn't do it in.
Like others have said, it's a fun skill to learn and practice. You just have to commit to doing it and practice, practice, practice! I don't get it exactly right every time, but it's fun to try and keep improving. As mentioned above, the harder you brake, generally the easier it is to do smoothly. Also, I've found that the bigger of a blip you give the gas -- to the point of going to a bit higher rpm than what it'll actually need in the lower gear -- the smoother the engagement tends to be.
Like others have said, it's a fun skill to learn and practice. You just have to commit to doing it and practice, practice, practice! I don't get it exactly right every time, but it's fun to try and keep improving. As mentioned above, the harder you brake, generally the easier it is to do smoothly. Also, I've found that the bigger of a blip you give the gas -- to the point of going to a bit higher rpm than what it'll actually need in the lower gear -- the smoother the engagement tends to be.
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g00dparsh (07-21-2020)
#23
Heel and toe is something I still need to practice, however, I always try to rev-match for a smoother ride and less wear and tear on the drivetrain. I don't always get it right either, but when I do, it's a thing of beauty
#24
I had a manual 986 before and couldn’t get the hang of heel toeing, especially at city speeds. I rev matched all the time because the driveline shock was quite jolting at least on the particular car I had.
Question for you experienced manual drivers: Is there a way to execute a relatively smooth downshift without rev matching or heel toeing? Slip out the clutch reaallly slowly after shifting to a lower gear? (Yes, I realize that would dramatically reduce clutch life. I asked a friend before who drove a manual for years and he responded something to that effect...)
Question for you experienced manual drivers: Is there a way to execute a relatively smooth downshift without rev matching or heel toeing? Slip out the clutch reaallly slowly after shifting to a lower gear? (Yes, I realize that would dramatically reduce clutch life. I asked a friend before who drove a manual for years and he responded something to that effect...)
#25
I rev match and only heel/toe when I'm pushing the car. It seems difficult to heel/toe when driving normal speeds since I need to depress the brake pedal much more than I would during normal driving to get in position to hit the accelerator.
#26
Question for you experienced manual drivers: Is there a way to execute a relatively smooth downshift without rev matching or heel toeing? Slip out the clutch reaallly slowly after shifting to a lower gear? (Yes, I realize that would dramatically reduce clutch life. I asked a friend before who drove a manual for years and he responded something to that effect...)
When learning manual, you often hear a lot of references made to the "bite point"...obviously this is essential for knowing where the clutch grabs. However, for buttery smooth shifting, it also helps to know what I informally refer to as the "pinch" point, where the uptake of the clutch and depression of the gas are basically equal so that the two pedals are roughly in line with each other. At this point, the revs are stabilizing out (and maybe even going up slightly) with the gas, as you are coming up with the clutch to "catch" them before applying more power. I would also say there is a bit of dwell time in this position (maybe 1/4 to a 1/2 a second) while you wait for the mechanicals to hook up, otherwise you will probably get a bit of a buck (revs too low) or thrust (revs higher than needed).
Master this "pinch" point and watch your shifting improve. It worked for me.
#27
Rennlist Member
Heel/toe technique is really convenient (and fun) in low-speed traffic. I'd always rather put engine braking and brakes together at low speeds if I can. Probably a psychological thing, but seems like it would mitigate the wear on both.
Agree with this big time, especially with the sound the flat six makes when you blip it.
I agree with this also. It took me some getting used to, but I mostly put it down to the bottom hinged accelerator.
I go for the clutch pedal about 30% of the time I drive an automatic car. If the seating position is even remotely sporty its pretty much a sure thing.
I go for the clutch pedal about 30% of the time I drive an automatic car. If the seating position is even remotely sporty its pretty much a sure thing.
Last edited by g00dparsh; 07-21-2020 at 05:29 PM.
#28
Rennlist Member
I H&T on the track and the street when I need to brake while downshifting. But my foot placement is unusual, but frankly more natural - I put my heel on the brake pedal and toes on the gas pedal.
W/ synchronized gears rev-matching not blipping is what we want to be doing. Correct if I'm wrong but my understanding is that back in the day before synchros, the technique was to blip the revs up above the matching point, w/ slight pressure on the gear lever in the direction you want to shift, and as the revs fell the lever would slip into gear when the proper rpm was reached. Thank you, Lord, for synchronized gears. But blipping is much cooler.
W/ synchronized gears rev-matching not blipping is what we want to be doing. Correct if I'm wrong but my understanding is that back in the day before synchros, the technique was to blip the revs up above the matching point, w/ slight pressure on the gear lever in the direction you want to shift, and as the revs fell the lever would slip into gear when the proper rpm was reached. Thank you, Lord, for synchronized gears. But blipping is much cooler.
#29
Racer
I've been rev matching for 50 years. Blipping is cool. I mean, why did you put that expensive exhaust on if not to hear the motor blip at every shift up and down - lol
The pedals are a little close in the Boxster so I put just the ball of my foot on the brake and roll the right side onto the gas. Works good even in bigger cars.
The pedals are a little close in the Boxster so I put just the ball of my foot on the brake and roll the right side onto the gas. Works good even in bigger cars.
#30
These cars have a pretty lazy throttle response which I find counterproductive. Not impossible but turns something that should be second nature into work.