Notices
987 Forum Discussion about the Cayman/Boxster variants (2004-2012)
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:
View Poll Results: How do you downshift?
Heel/toe most of the time
54
40.60%
Heel/toe sometimes
29
21.80%
Auto/rev match most of the time
41
30.83%
I lug the engine or put car in neutral
4
3.01%
I drive a higher performing PDK
5
3.76%
CVT all or nothing
0
0%
Voters: 133. You may not vote on this poll

For MT Drivers

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 07-14-2020, 07:56 PM
  #16  
The_Driveway
Basic Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor

 
The_Driveway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: San Jose
Posts: 108
Received 25 Likes on 15 Posts
Default

I heel toe as much as possible. It's a great feeling when you downshift a few gears in succession.
Old 07-15-2020, 01:09 AM
  #17  
st981
Instructor
 
st981's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 141
Received 30 Likes on 22 Posts
Default

I used to race cars so heel-n-toe was like second nature. Then drove auto-tragics for 6+yrs until now. I do heel-n-toe a fair amount at higher RPM and when setting up for a turn but at lower RPM it's awkward to do so I don't. I cringe when people (ahem gf) downshift and shock load the driveline but heel-n-toe is not something everyone learned to do nor everyone even knows what it is.
Old 07-15-2020, 01:20 AM
  #18  
z3mcoupe
Rennlist Member
 
z3mcoupe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 832
Received 178 Likes on 98 Posts
Default

I honestly find heel toeing hard in the Boxster. I have a ‘69 912 and it’s a piece of cake in that car how the pedals are set up. I feel you have to contort your ankle awkwardly to make it work in the new cars. Having said that I usually rev match when I down shift.
Old 07-15-2020, 09:26 AM
  #19  
Yabo
Rennlist Member
 
Yabo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Boston
Posts: 11,710
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

I'm a manual-only guy but the auto-blip is great on the track, IMO. I don't think it's THAT much of a cheat considering PDK does that and everything else, we already have the performance disadvantage of being manual.
Old 07-15-2020, 12:58 PM
  #20  
Dave in Chicago
Rennlist Member
 
Dave in Chicago's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Chicago Area
Posts: 2,857
Received 243 Likes on 161 Posts
Default

My daily drivers have been manuals for so long, I'm that guy who occasionally rolls a foot over onto the gas when I first jump into one of the autobox cars in the family.

Habits... go figure...
The following users liked this post:
g00dparsh (07-21-2020)
Old 07-15-2020, 09:14 PM
  #21  
joliver3
Advanced
 
joliver3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 71
Received 28 Likes on 20 Posts
Default

I'm a little surprised at some of the comments about people not being able to heel/toe. I wear a size 8 shoe -- kind of on the small side -- and I've heel-and-toed every manual transmission car I've driven for the last 30+ years, with the ball of my foot on the brake and the heel or side on the gas. Some cars are more awkward than others -- Ford Focus ST and SN95 Mustang come to mind -- but I've never found a car I absolutely couldn't do it in.

Like others have said, it's a fun skill to learn and practice. You just have to commit to doing it and practice, practice, practice! I don't get it exactly right every time, but it's fun to try and keep improving. As mentioned above, the harder you brake, generally the easier it is to do smoothly. Also, I've found that the bigger of a blip you give the gas -- to the point of going to a bit higher rpm than what it'll actually need in the lower gear -- the smoother the engagement tends to be.

Old 07-15-2020, 09:39 PM
  #22  
jscott82
Rennlist Member
 
jscott82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 3,076
Received 363 Likes on 238 Posts
Default

Never driven an auto blipper... But couple years ago borrowed a buddies MT truck... Kinda chuckled when I caught myself heal toeing it.
The following users liked this post:
g00dparsh (07-21-2020)
Old 07-17-2020, 09:49 AM
  #23  
rk15000
Rennlist Member
 
rk15000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 109
Received 38 Likes on 24 Posts
Default

Heel and toe is something I still need to practice, however, I always try to rev-match for a smoother ride and less wear and tear on the drivetrain. I don't always get it right either, but when I do, it's a thing of beauty
Old 07-17-2020, 07:44 PM
  #24  
enzojr
Intermediate
 
enzojr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 35
Received 5 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

I had a manual 986 before and couldn’t get the hang of heel toeing, especially at city speeds. I rev matched all the time because the driveline shock was quite jolting at least on the particular car I had.

Question for you experienced manual drivers: Is there a way to execute a relatively smooth downshift without rev matching or heel toeing? Slip out the clutch reaallly slowly after shifting to a lower gear? (Yes, I realize that would dramatically reduce clutch life. I asked a friend before who drove a manual for years and he responded something to that effect...)
Old 07-17-2020, 10:07 PM
  #25  
MattUF
Racer
 
MattUF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: SATX
Posts: 410
Received 78 Likes on 56 Posts
Default

I rev match and only heel/toe when I'm pushing the car. It seems difficult to heel/toe when driving normal speeds since I need to depress the brake pedal much more than I would during normal driving to get in position to hit the accelerator.
Old 07-17-2020, 10:19 PM
  #26  
rk15000
Rennlist Member
 
rk15000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 109
Received 38 Likes on 24 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by enzojr
Question for you experienced manual drivers: Is there a way to execute a relatively smooth downshift without rev matching or heel toeing? Slip out the clutch reaallly slowly after shifting to a lower gear? (Yes, I realize that would dramatically reduce clutch life. I asked a friend before who drove a manual for years and he responded something to that effect...)
Yes, that would effectively "pull" the engine speed down with the friction of the clutch. I wouldn't advise doing that, though, for the reason you say (reduced clutch life).

When learning manual, you often hear a lot of references made to the "bite point"...obviously this is essential for knowing where the clutch grabs. However, for buttery smooth shifting, it also helps to know what I informally refer to as the "pinch" point, where the uptake of the clutch and depression of the gas are basically equal so that the two pedals are roughly in line with each other. At this point, the revs are stabilizing out (and maybe even going up slightly) with the gas, as you are coming up with the clutch to "catch" them before applying more power. I would also say there is a bit of dwell time in this position (maybe 1/4 to a 1/2 a second) while you wait for the mechanicals to hook up, otherwise you will probably get a bit of a buck (revs too low) or thrust (revs higher than needed).

Master this "pinch" point and watch your shifting improve. It worked for me.
Old 07-21-2020, 04:57 PM
  #27  
g00dparsh
Rennlist Member
 
g00dparsh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: South FL, USA
Posts: 80
Received 40 Likes on 19 Posts
Default

Heel/toe technique is really convenient (and fun) in low-speed traffic. I'd always rather put engine braking and brakes together at low speeds if I can. Probably a psychological thing, but seems like it would mitigate the wear on both.

Originally Posted by The_Driveway
I heel toe as much as possible. It's a great feeling when you downshift a few gears in succession.
Agree with this big time, especially with the sound the flat six makes when you blip it.

Originally Posted by z3mcoupe
I honestly find heel toeing hard in the Boxster. I have a ‘69 912 and it’s a piece of cake in that car how the pedals are set up. I feel you have to contort your ankle awkwardly to make it work in the new cars. Having said that I usually rev match when I down shift.
I agree with this also. It took me some getting used to, but I mostly put it down to the bottom hinged accelerator.

Originally Posted by Dave in Chicago
My daily drivers have been manuals for so long, I'm that guy who occasionally rolls a foot over onto the gas when I first jump into one of the autobox cars in the family.

Habits... go figure...
I go for the clutch pedal about 30% of the time I drive an automatic car. If the seating position is even remotely sporty its pretty much a sure thing.

Last edited by g00dparsh; 07-21-2020 at 05:29 PM.
Old 07-25-2020, 07:52 PM
  #28  
bldn10
Rennlist Member
 
bldn10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Memphis
Posts: 450
Received 74 Likes on 51 Posts
Default

I H&T on the track and the street when I need to brake while downshifting. But my foot placement is unusual, but frankly more natural - I put my heel on the brake pedal and toes on the gas pedal.

W/ synchronized gears rev-matching not blipping is what we want to be doing. Correct if I'm wrong but my understanding is that back in the day before synchros, the technique was to blip the revs up above the matching point, w/ slight pressure on the gear lever in the direction you want to shift, and as the revs fell the lever would slip into gear when the proper rpm was reached. Thank you, Lord, for synchronized gears. But blipping is much cooler.
Old 01-02-2021, 05:20 AM
  #29  
scootr
Racer
 
scootr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: So California
Posts: 427
Received 169 Likes on 120 Posts
Default

I've been rev matching for 50 years. Blipping is cool. I mean, why did you put that expensive exhaust on if not to hear the motor blip at every shift up and down - lol
The pedals are a little close in the Boxster so I put just the ball of my foot on the brake and roll the right side onto the gas. Works good even in bigger cars.
Old 01-02-2021, 08:16 PM
  #30  
PhillyNate
Racer
 
PhillyNate's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Colorado
Posts: 464
Received 115 Likes on 84 Posts
Default

These cars have a pretty lazy throttle response which I find counterproductive. Not impossible but turns something that should be second nature into work.


Quick Reply: For MT Drivers



All times are GMT -3. The time now is 05:37 PM.