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Hey folks,
(long time lurker, first time poster) - Ususally, i can find a solution through the search button but this time I'm stumped.
I'm the proud owner of an 08 Cayman base; proudly sitting at 171,000 KM as of today
Whole story:
Late last year I was offered a cat-back exhaust from a friend which I graciously accepted and installed. (by AFE, i love the sound - so it must stay!).
About a few months after, same year I've noticed O2 sensor codes (P2196, P0133, P0134, P0030 ) A reset of the codes last a day or so of driving and P2196 will return (assuming i let it linger, the other codes slowly start showing up as well). At first i thought this was the result of the catback, i installed a "spacer bung" (correct name?) on bank 1, sensor 1 (US Passenger side, Upstream sensor) and hoped that would resolve (no bueno).
I also started to notice a drop in power / hesitation of the car to go beyond 4k rpm (any gear) if I want to drive spiritedly. it will eventually go but my ***-sensor tells me its struggling ever slightly and not as smooth as it should be,
Here's my thought process i want to run by. Please let me know if logic is sound:
1. Replace O2 sensor; bank 1, sensor 1 (already on order, eta 2 days)
2. Run a fuel injector cleaner (techron ?) on a full tank ( the car is at 170,000 k - i'm the second owner; responsible for nearly half of those - never had issues otherwise)
3. If above 2 fail, replace Spark plugs (i find this a bit odd as a spark plug issue would have plagued mis-fires, no?)
4. (i scare to think): get a bore scope done (is removing the spark plugs to do a scope enough?) - i don't have the tools for this; happy to do it myself and post pictures when im doing #3.
I have access to a durametric pro - if anyone here thinks there are important metrics i can download / share while driving about.
Appreciate thoughts folks.
Here are the Porsche explainations of your various codes. Look for the overlap of the possible causes. Not to say this is your problem but recently I threw a similar code and it turned out to be one of the bung extensions was coming unscrewed.
Thank you for those suggestions!
I'll get my hands on a Durametric this weekend; will give it a test and report back on the 3-7k test.
I'll see if i can lift my car tomorrow to check in on the O2 sensor bungs and if they've come loose. I've seen this happen once before after the first time i installed them, never thought to check again. I'm assuming the bung is only required on the upstream sensors, don't need them for downstream?
Uh, no.
You can read the articles linked below but the short answer is that you want the upstream wide-band O2 sensors to be reacting as efficiently as possible. The downstream narrow band O2 sensors are more likely to be the ones that set at least some of your codes. That is where the bung extensions might help. Keep in mind the bung extensions slow down the response of the sensors. Then you get the "dynamic" error messages such as described for P0133. But things like looking for air leaks certainly apply to both upstream and downstream sensors. I am assuming that you still have the stock "pre-cats"?
BTW, I started out with some really cheap bung extensions. I guess they were trying to save steel as the land for the compression washer was so narrow it just sort of mangled it. I subsequently bought some from Summit which seem to be a little better sizewise.
Thank you for this wealth of knowledge. I read the articles on how to use a Durametric. Picking it up in the morning so I'm hoping to have some time to try it tomorrow and capture the data you've shown so far.
I'll report back as soon as I've got some data to share!
Got my cables; just in the process of setting up an unused laptop that i can dedicate to this and hopefully capture some info tomorrow.
Appreciate all the amazing knowledge Harvey! If your ever Canada side (or me stateside) - I owe you several pints!
Some updates.
As the weather is going down hill (calling for snow of all damn things ....) I could only grab some statistics.
Did the 3.5-7k rpm test. a few different runs. Averaged about 4.8-5.2 seconds @ about 90c Engine oil temp and ~27c Intake-air Temp.
The interesting bit are the following codes that durametric picked up before i started my baseline test.
Plan for this evening:
- Jack up the car and confirm where the bungs were installed (i can't remember)
- Check if any of the bungs are loose
- If for whatever reason the weather hasn't gone to **** - i'll take it out for a drive and do the voltage test on the o2 sensors.
Your 3500-7000 values are in the ballpark. They certainly don't reflect a significant loss of power.
Get some Actual Values on the 4 O2 sensors before you drill down on a cause.
Uh, no.
You can read the articles linked below but the short answer is that you want the upstream wide-band O2 sensors to be reacting as efficiently as possible. The downstream narrow band O2 sensors are more likely to be the ones that set at least some of your codes. That is where the bung extensions might help. Keep in mind the bung extensions slow down the response of the sensors. Then you get the "dynamic" error messages such as described for P0133. But things like looking for air leaks certainly apply to both upstream and downstream sensors. I am assuming that you still have the stock "pre-cats"?
BTW, I started out with some really cheap bung extensions. I guess they were trying to save steel as the land for the compression washer was so narrow it just sort of mangled it. I subsequently bought some from Summit which seem to be a little better sizewise.
A vast simplification of what can or could be but below is a screenshot of a Durametric tracking the 4 sensors on a 07 Cayman S.
If you don't have experience with a Durametric, there are a couple of articles on my website- search on Engine Health
hmmm.... that is either a cat issue or exhaust leak or not all the fuel being burnt in the cylinder. I find it odd that the up stream and down are the same voltage. I'm thinking a cat issue.
so you put in the o2 extensions. Fill them with steel wool. On my track car I don't run cats. The shell is there but I hammered out all the honey comb. I keep the CEL under control with the extensions and steel wool. On the 2.7 I doubt bore score. Run a fuel treatment through it that will clean up your valves.
are you getting any smoke at start up?
and the wal mart obd2 hypertough blue tooth reader is so much easier than durametric. I have both and I call the durametric my airbag light tool. And their customer service isn't the best. The hyper tough is cheaper and has an app to your phone that is freaking amazing. Yes you can get live data and record it. I'm telling you for $70 it's a bargain. I'd be willing to sell my durameteic for 50% of whatever it's going for. I bought it about a year ago.
Last edited by Shark Attack; 04-14-2024 at 12:23 PM.
Hey Kyle,
The image in your reference is from Harvey's own car. I believe that's post his bung extension installation.
I have to sort out in my PIWIS why i couldn't capture a pre/post voltage. I've only posted pre cat voltages.
I also have extensions installed (no steel wool in it). The weather in Toronto and family commitments haven't given me the time of day to get any real work done. Hopefully in the coming days.
I do have spare extensions that i had ordered for my BMW with honeycombs in it; may give that a shot. But first I'd like to capture running (under load) voltage values like Harvey suggested.
I also have a bottle of Techron on standby. Will be doing that very soon when i can get out; I'm almost at an empty tank of winter fuel (no ethanol).
I'm also an amateur when it comes to a lot of this work; the wealth of knowledge from all here is really just helping me learn a ton about what all this data means.
edit: I get a puff of white smoke now and then at startup. (not all the time and not a constant never ending stream- like a 5 second ordeal) I’m told that’s normal for NA cars
Last edited by PeachShooter; 04-14-2024 at 01:59 PM.
Your fuel trims are reasonable.
Your Lamdas are resonable.
Your downstream O2 voltages are very low. Should be around 0.7 volts, give or take.
Try holding the throttle at 2500 rpm or so, make sure it is warmed up, and check again.
It is implausable that both O2 sensors would fail at the same time.
BTW when you first start the car, there is a high idle condition (~1200-1400 rpm) that represents the secondary air injection phase. This intentially runs the car lean, to heat up the cats quickly. So any O2 readings need to occur after the car has passed through this phase, about 1-2 minutes
and the wal mart obd2 hypertough blue tooth reader is so much easier than durametric. I have both and I call the durametric my airbag light tool. And their customer service isn't the best. The hyper tough is cheaper and has an app to your phone that is freaking amazing. Yes you can get live data and record it. I'm telling you for $70 it's a bargain. I'd be willing to sell my durameteic for 50% of whatever it's going for. I bought it about a year ago.
Thanks for the input…ive been wanting to get a obd2 device as i need to clear some codes after disconnecting a few parts that caused the dash to yell at me. $53 shipped after tax from Walmart online is a cheap buy for the abilities it seems to give. I like the app model so it can get sw updates for features. Again thanks!
03-28-2024, 06:27 PM
987.1 (Base) O2 Sensor / Loosing Power at 4K RPM
