Zylinderkopfdichtung

Hey all,

I recently changed the oil in my 2006 Cayman S with fewer than 7300 miles on the clock. I think that shortly after the oil change I began getting this sound (ignore what I send about where the sound comes from - I really couldn't tell). At the very least, I don't recall the sound happening before the oil change.

Here's the sequence of events:

- I added 8 quarts of fresh oil (Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5W-40)
- I checked the oil level (it was in the middle of the gague)
- I started the engine
- Received a momentary "oil pressure low" or similarly worded warning on the dash. It went away within seconds. I assume(d) it was simply a momentary slug of air in the oiling system.
- Clicking/ticking sound was evident once the engine was warm

I had the oil pressure relief valve piston replaced as the problem seemed consistent with the TSB related to this (TSB: ENU1726 related to part number: 997-107-125-01). This did not fix the noise.

It seems that the thicker the oil, the worse the problem is; the noise is worse the warmer the engine (and oil?) is. It is also worse running 5W-40 than 5W-30. This makes me think that the problem is related to oil deficiency in some part of the engine.

The sound doesn't happen or rarely happens when the engine is cold. Once up to operating temperature (oil is thicker?) the noise is more prevalent.

I've surrendered the car to the local independent Porsche specialists who haven't been able to identify the problem. They say it's 80% gone with 5W-30 and that I should drive the car gently for a while and see if it goes away.

Any advice is much appreciated!

On a possibly related note, can a shade-tree mechanic change the lifters in an M97?

Update(s):
- I had a UOA done and it came back clean.
- Spark plugs were replaced while the care was in the shop - no change
- I do have a Durametric and was thinking about plugging it in and activating/deactivating the Variocam (I think I can do this with the Durametric?)

Pnug

Does the noise change when you apply the gas? A good way to find where the noise is coming from is a long screw driver, placing the tip on the engine and the other to your ear. Move it around till the noise is the loudest. Sounds a little like a rocker arm but they don't have them. I don't think that it's a lifter or valve thing. See if the noise is more from the front of the engine where there are external components like the water pump. If switching to a thinner oil (5-30w ) reduces the sound, I'd be really wondering what the noise is. Sorry, not that hip on the internals of the water cooled engines.

What filters are you talking about? I change my own oil and filter. I would have just anybody work on it. Example: you can't just put any oil in the car, there are specific approved brands and types. Too thick of an oil and it won't pump through the oil journals properly. You're better off sticking to a European shop that handles late modeled Porsches (996/boxsters and up). Check with your local PCA Club.

Zylinderkopfdichtung

Hey, thanks for the reply.

The sound does change when I step on the gas. It stays intermittent but perhaps less so. I did use Porsche A40 approved oil and replaced the oil filter with a stock unit (I had a spin-on filter adapter from LN Engineering on there before). It is at a Porsche specialist shop, alas they remain largely stumped.

justin-in-athens

I'd run a 0w-40 or 5w-40 oil only--stock filter is a good idea too. The screwdriver method is cheap, but so is a mechanics stethoscope from harbor freight $6. Remove the engine cover behind the seats and use the scope CAREFULLY while the engine is running and listen to the idler pulley bearings and the water pump. I am betting this tick was present before--you were just hypersensitive to the noise upon completing the oil change.

Zylinderkopfdichtung

The fact that 5W-30 drastically improves the noise makes me think it really is part of the oil system or oil-lubed rotating assemble. I do hope you're right however! Thanks for the advice - I'll give it a shot

Macster

The noise doesn't sound to me that it is oil related, oil pressure related. It is too intermittent.

The changes with different viscosities of oil could be just your imagination compounded by the intermittent characteristic of the noise. Also, a lighter oil can allow the engine to varying its speed a bit more -- the lighter presents less a dampening effect on the engine's rotating/reciprocating hardware.

My first thought, well, the 1st thought after the 1st thought, which I guess makes it my 2nd thought (Math is not my strong suite) is it is plug or coil related.

It really has the characteristics of a coil arcing.

But no CEL? Steady or even flashing?

Next up is something related to the accessory drive system. A belt with some chunks of ribs missing. A weak/failing belt tensioner. Or an accessory drive with excessive play.

If the noise is present cold you can carefully note the belt's routing and direction of rotation then remove the belt and start the engine and at least determine if the noise is present or not.

What you hear or do not hear determines what you do next.

If the noise is present with the belt removed you need to more closely pinpoint where the noise is coming from.

It could be a broken valve spring. A collapsed (nearly) zero lash valve adjuster.

Then there is the exhaust system. Something could be loose in the exhaust manifold.

Lastly, there was a thread by a person who had an ongoing intermittent noise problem that turned out to be a small bolt or some similar piece of hardware caught in the crankshaft pulley in the space/cavity of this pulley.

Sincerely,

Macster.

the_vetman

LMAO... Macster, I've never seen this side of you.

Listen, ladies!! He's smart AND funny!

paradigm79

Your symptoms sounds substantially like mine. I have tried 0W-40, 5W-40, and now 5W-50 and none of them made a difference I don't think, but it may have gotten worse with 5W-50. Since my tapping noise also gets worse with increased temperature I'm not sure since I put the 5W-50 in at the same time we got this record heat wave.

You can activate the solenoids with Durametic, I've done it with inconclusive results. You can also pull each solenoid out and temporarily activate it with a separate 12V supply to see if they respond. While you are in there pull out the finger screen behind the valve timing solenoid and look for debris, I found two pieces of very small spring. Unless they were trash in the system right from the factory, I suspect it came from a check valve somewhere in the system but I haven't found out where yet...there are lots of them!

My tapping noise also goes away pretty much at anything above idle, and on rare occasion it will stop and stay quiet so long as I push and hold the clutch in. Other times this has no effect and has seriously stumped all the shops that have looked at my car. The noise has a sharp crack to it sometimes, like cracking a whip, not typical of the tapping of a lifter, and seems to come from the front but is very difficult to pinpoint with a stethoscope.

Please keep us informed of what you find.

Zylinderkopfdichtung

Many thanks for your reply. Your expertise is much appreciated!

It sure is weird... It very well may have preceded my oil change and I was just hypersensitive to it as a result of the change.

I just had the plugs replaced while the car was in the shop and they were looking into this issue. New plugs didn't change anything. It could still be the coils, however.

The only CEL is the one I got when I first started the car after changing the oil. Otherwise nothing at all even after 30+ minutes of driving.

I plan on taking the front engine cover off. Since the sound is worse when the engine is hot, I'll have to get it up to temperature before doing so.

My greatest fear short of bore scoring...

I wish I could hold the thing up-side-down and shake it!

Thanks again!

Macster

Don't waste time and energy guessing and then fretting on what may be wrong (and likely a long shot at best).

As best you can pinpoint the source of the noise *before* you unbolt anything.

There's coils, plugs, a lot of valves, chains by the mile, about a zillion feet of serpentine belt, idler rollers, a belt tensioner, a number of accessory drives and more feet of exhaust pipe than you can measure and with more connections than a Washington D.C. insider.

Anyone of these could be the source of the noise.

Focus on nailing down where the noise is coming from.

And focus on doing this with a minimum of engine run time.

That the engine is healthy sounding and behaving otherwise, that there is nothing scary in the oil -- you might want to drop the oil filter housing and dump its oil out into a *clean* drain pan and look at the oil for any signs of stuff (check the filter element too) and replace with a new filter and o-ring and if necessary top up with fresh oil to bring the oil level up to something reasonable (ie: not too high, not too low) -- is a good sign but you want to act like the engine's teetering on the edge and get this nailed down ASAP.

Noises of some indeterminate source must be considered an early warning of something serious just in case they are.

I can't recall the beginning of this thread so pardon me if I speak out of turn, but a professional tech can be worth his weight in gold in these cases. He (and his co-workers) hear noises all the time and pinpointing the source of the noise if it is not readily identifiable is job #1.

Sincerely,

Macster.

Zylinderkopfdichtung

Awesome post, thanks Macster.

The car is currently at the most reputable independent Porsche shop in Houston and they couldn't identify the issue which is troubling. I'm tempted to bring it to another shop to have them look at it.

Macster

The fact the 1st shop hasn't id'd the source of the noise means that you are right back where you started and that is not knowing where the noise is coming from.

Until you and a professional tech know from where the noise is coming, you are no closer to having this resolved than you were the other day.

Thus, a second opinion from a different shop is always a good idea, more than a good idea, a necessity.

Be aware that if you take the car to a dealer it might want to have you sign/authorize for a partial engine tear down.

Do not panic.

Do not sign up for this either.

Between you and me you are not going to fund a wild goose chase without at least knowing there are geese about.

All the dealer need know is you want its experienced/highly trained techs to first give a listen then you want to hear what they have to say and you'll decide what to do after some thinking it over time.

Ask that the car be put on a lift and the techs give a listen. You want to know where as precisely as possible the noise is coming from. Offer to pay for say a half an hour's labor for this.

In my area labor is $150/hour and $75 or even $100 given your situation is not an amount of money to quibble over.

Because of this noise you have lost all enjoyment of the car so a small amount of money to get the car started down the road (so to speak) to good health (get rid of that noise) is worth it, at least to me.

'course, you have to make up your own mind, do what you feel is best for you.

Sincerely,

Macster.

Zylinderkopfdichtung

Not only is this sound technical advice, I feel that I've just gone through a valuable counseling session! You're fantastic - thank you again!

the_vetman

Yeah, Macster is always good for sound advice. And, now, apparently comedy!!

Zylinderkopfdichtung

I'm back with a follow-up:

I picked up the car about an hour ago. The clanging is gone. I brought the car to another reputable Houston Porsche shop and let them have a listen. They couldn't hear anything amiss at all.

All the first shop did to "fix" it is replace the (8.2 quarts of brand new, Pennzoil Ultra Euro... $$$) 5W-40 with 0W-30 synthetic and drove it. The owner of the shop thinks that something went amiss during my oil change; perhaps dislodging a carbon deposit that the 30 weight was able to address. He admitted it's completely speculative and didn't like the answer, but short of tearing the engine apart, that was his best guess.

What are the chances that the oil was bad? I had previously used Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5W-40 that I bought at Ferrari of Houston - it worked great. The PU that I used for this oil change was purchased by the case off of Amazon. None of it was used until I did the oil change. I still have 4 quarts of it that I'm rather weary of using.