randr

Blue car in top pane - only because to my eye it seems a little smoother - but thats not the point, PDK is more important for multi lap accuracy, consistency, reliability and longevity. Its the multi lap accuracy and the ability to zip through/ set up for complex compound corners that makes the most difference.

PS: I drive both manual and PDK

Nemesis77

Since very few will be that consistent, as the graph indicates, on driving a manual on a racetrack or a PDK, I say you pick a manual for the fulfillment of changing the gears yourself and enjoying the fact that you have more involvement with your hands and legs in correlation with what you want the car to do.
Besides that, PDK is the safe way to enjoy a track car, or any car that you like, both on the road and on a track (if you ever take it to the track that is), and at the same time be able to focus on other driving tasks such as not crashing to others or putting your signal on when you have to turn or changing lanes.

orthojoe

You are to be commended for being the only one brave enough to take on the challenge, but unfortunately, you are incorrect. The blue line represents a MANUAL spyder. If the difference is 0.5 seconds as you suggest, it should have been MUCH easier to differentiate the 2. All of those who think PDK equates to a huge advantage as you exit a corner and go down the straights, are clearly incorrect as the acceleration lines are equivalent if not weighted to a slight advantage with the manual when the line and time of power application are the same.
Attachment 1352976

The other graph shows a 3 second difference between a GT3 (blue) and a GT4 (red). It's lunacy to think that PDK is the equivalent of having an extra 90hp (I know that not all of the 3 seconds is because of the extra 90hp, but you get my point)
Attachment 1353022

You have a point on consistency with pdk, but I can also show you video and data of multiple consecutive 1:38 and 1:39 laps at laguna in my manual GT4 which are within .1 seconds of each other.

Pdk is the faster and better transmission, but the advantage is greatly exaggerated on this forum.

rost12

The advantage is greater the "worse" the driver is, as PDK makes the car significantly easier to extract performance from. So for a "bad" driver, the difference per lap between manual and PDK cars will likely be more significant. I guess the hypothetical "good" driver will be splitting seconds.

Thank you for the graphs, interesting info.

Greg H.

The advantage PDK has over MT is in actual racing. One less thing to think about is an advantage. For what these cars will be used for, MT has the advantage. If your MT car is slower than a PDK car you have an excuse. If your MT car is faster you have better bragging rights.

rost12

That's exactly my plan of action come next track season

JRidge

I prefer the manual, not only because I think it's more fun, but more importantly because it's just one more aspect of driving I can try to get better at. The only person I'm competing with is me, and the MT is just one more thing that I can (hopefully) improve on to extract better lap times. I don't care if I'm slower than a PDK .2 anymore than I care that I'm slower than a GT2RS. I only care if I'm faster than my previous lap.

That said, if I were racing wheel to wheel, trying to beat other cars/drivers, sure, I'd welcome any advantage as well as one less thing to think about/screw up!

WenigerAberBeser

What is the most logical next step for automatic transmissions in street-legal sports cars? What autobox will mostly likely grace the next GT3? serious questions

Same questions for manuals. We've already seen auto-rev and lock out... but what else is most likely to change?

SteveFrench

CVT

orthojoe

I agree!

randr

Also agree with Rost12 comments. Another point to consider is the type of circuit - often post start, and depending on the circuit, you may only use 3-4-3-4.

As I said above, for me, its about the ability to focus on the line with consistent accuracy (plus the reliability plus durability side). I find with any car, if you're a good driver, you ultimately find the cars limits . Its at this point the accuracy and consistency come in to play - because at this point you are talking about variation measured in a few tenths of a second or less per lap (on one set of tires).

From there your choices are, different tires, different brakes, different suspension settings, different corner weight bias, different aero settings and ultimately different engine - different car

I've seen a quite a few fried clutches/diffs in 997 GT3 land yet, at least to date, I haven't seen a PDK let go. The point being, in manuals that are tracked heavily you have to view the clutch in much the same way as you view brake pads e.g. a consumable. This is not a negative but rather something to keep in mind.

orthojoe

^ I don't disagree with you here. Although, I'm curious which tracks never use 2nd gear. I've never seen one? You can drive some tracks without going into 2nd, but you wouldn't be properly taking advantage of the power band.

Greg H.

Seems to me the big advantage of PDK over MT is downshifting under braking, which is negated with auto rev match. So realistically, no difference between PDK and MT. I'm thinking of turn 11 at Sonoma where there is a 4-3-2 downshift threshold braking into trail braking while heel and toeing. Auto rev match eliminates the heel toe and makes it as easy in an MT car as PDK. The speed of the shifts don't really add anything to lap times, as Joe has pointed out. Its how the shifting affects stability which is a much bigger deal going down than up.

Personally I think PDK cars sound badass shifting so that's the direction I am going.

randr

Velocity Kmh and elevation m - average speed 84mph



Gear and RPM (.2 S)

Turbos plus PDK 3-4-3-4 note T2-T3 to T4 is a compound left right - into left, note T5

note smooth velocity traces

note 3700rpm is broadly equivalent to 5000 rpm in a GT3

orthojoe

Cool graphs!
80km/h as the slowest turn is a pretty fast course. That plus the low end torque that a turbo provides would explain why 2nd gear isn't used.